Life In 19x19

Posted: **Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:40 am**

@robinz

Posted: **Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:09 am**

topazg wrote:@robinz

Think how much less reading you'd have to do if C18 was at C15 Far less headaches! Don't take this as a criticism at all as it isn't - it's always fun when things get into complicated-land to have a look-see and think whether it could have been avoided.

Posted: **Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:02 am**

alright, still stuck with this whatever-forsaken netbook. Tomorrow I'll at least have access to a mac, and should be playing some Go against a new to the game player, should be fun. I'll post thoughts and let him look at the game, should be a good experience.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm19 robinz vs DIV - Move 19 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 1 O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:35 am**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm20 robinz vs DIV - Move 20; prisoners: Black 0 White 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I added a bit to the text to count prisoners, now that we have one. There's probably a tidier way of doing it though...

Posted: **Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:59 pm**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 robinz vs DIV - Move 21; prisoners: Black 0 White 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

ok, sorry for no thoughts. I decided to try to make this corner work. Here's a few possibilities:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm22 robinz vs DIV; prisoners: Black 0 White 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think this is one of more likely options, I think I can get life from this even if he throws in, though not sure exactly. There's also the possibility he won't block at 5 which means I might be able to get out or poke and cut. We'll see I guess.

Thanks for patience robinz and others, computer situation has gotten odd in the past week.

Posted: **Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:38 am**

No need to apologise for your computer problems (you've still managed to make a move, or at least post an apology for no move, every day - I don't think apologies are needed until you've been unable to do anything for 3 or 4 days). Hope things are better now, anyway

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm22 robinz vs DIV - Move 22; prisoners: Black 0 White 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It shouldn't surprise me any more I guess that my opponent has found another move that I didn't consider at all. The first move that came into my head was C15, but then I decided I liked the look of B15. I'm now also thinking about D15. I haven't even decided on my move as I start to type this, but hope that doing so will bring some clarity to my thoughts and allow me to discover which move I prefer.

So, let's consider what happens if I play C15. Black will surely play B15 (otherwise I see no point at all in his last move) - and, other than having sente, I can't say I like the result very much - Black is alive, with more points than I would want, and can push out (or perhaps even hane at C13) from his corner. What is more, that cut at D15 now seems to work, as black at D14 is now an atari, so I may well need to make yet another move to defend here, and I'll have achieved none of the aims I wanted from this corner situation. Thus I'm going to rule out C15.

What about B15, then? The advantage of this is that it succeeds in cutting black's just-played keima, and also leaves a lack of eyespace in the corner, forcing Black to run. The downside, if such it is, is that the continuations are very messy (I have learned my lesson for next time topazg!). Given how complicated it is, and how many unexpected moves DIV has made, I'm not going to give many variations, but here is one sequence I can envisage:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc robinz vs DIV - Move 22; prisoners: Black 0 White 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . 4 X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 1 2 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 5 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

- actually looking at the position makes me like this less than I thought I did; the problem is Black's move 4 here, which makes an eye in sente (OK I can play at A16 to stop it becoming an eye, but after BA17 WA15 black has yet another move to cause me problems), thus still allowing Black to run. Meanwhile my stones are cut to pieces and lacking in liberties. D18 isn't even an eye yet, although I could make it so by playing at E17 next. On the other hand, Black still can't obviously link up to the F17 stone, and if I can surround and capture it quickly I should be OK. But while I'm doing that Black can either cause all kinds of chaos with the group running out from the corner, or simply play big points elsewhere.

So my conclusion about this move is that it's a lot better than C15, but it gets into a big messy fight (such situations being one of the weaker parts of my game), which may well not be that favourable - so I'm not going to make it unless I really dislike the result from D15.

As for D15, it seems to be the obvious move for a nice quiet life. But I don't think I can keep sente - Black will obviously play at C15, and I have another cut to worry about at D14. The best way of handling that looks to me to be the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc robinz vs DIV - Move 21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | 2 . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

(2 could of course be at a couple of other places as well; what's important here is that some move there needs to be played). The good news is that Black is sealed in and I'm conected - the bad news is that black has sente (as well as a couple of potentially annoying peeps for later - indeed the one at E14 looks already quiet effective, if it's followed up by E15 or F15).

Oh - but what if Black plays B15 instead of C15? It looks very small and passive, and I will have sente, but Black won't be sealed in any longer. I can't hane - I can quietly extend, and am more than happy for Black to crawl along the second line will giving me a third line wall, but of course Black won't do that and will take his sente elsewhere. Or I could just take sente, and let Black try to make things complicated again with B13 or C13.

Well, that's a choice I won't have to make until later, and I think I prefer any of these outcomes to the messiness of the B15 option. Hence I've decided on D15.

Posted: **Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:56 pm**

Prediction, not for players:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm22 robinz vs DIV; prisoners: Black 0 White 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 9 X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 7 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 8 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I just saw this shape recently. I think it was in one of Judicata's games. While he played to avoid it and no sacrifice occured, I bet it will happen here, accident or no. While not horrible for black, thanks to the ponnuki, it's still hard to give up that much so early on.

Posted: **Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:10 am**

I guess my opponent is still having computer problems. But to keep this game in the minds of some spectators, a few more of my thoughts on the current position:

(These are in no particular order):
1. I realise now that I was far too harsh on C15 when going through the options for my last move. The position after black responds at B15 seems not to be different in any significant way from that which will result if he plays B15 in response to my actual move at D15. My position looks eminently playable to me, although it remains to be seen how well I can actually do with it. (Note that I still prefer the move I made - if black plays C15 the double hane at B13 seems to work pretty well, while if he plays B15 then at least I don't have any cutting points to immediately worry about.)

2. It's worth pointing out that, if Black does play C15, the double hane only works because of the following nice variation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc robinz vs DIV - Move 22 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 8 X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 6 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 7 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

- clearly Black won't actually play this way, but it's nice to know that I have a refutation if he does try to cut me apart

3. If Black does play at C15, and then defends in response to B13, I spoke earlier about defending the two threatened cuts with the trumpet connection at D13. But I didn't like that because of the opportunities it leaves for Black to peep. So I started to think about other ways of defending, and at the moment am quite keen on solidly connecting at D14, to avoid that peep. The cut at C13 doesn't immediately work for Black because I have a working ladder. Of course, leaving ladder aji isn't necessarily better (and could easily be worse) than leaving peep aji, but the area of the board that the ladder runs towards doesn't look immediately interesting, so I should be able to defend in response to any ladder-breaker, without losing too much. The problem with the trumpet connection (as I mentioned earlier) is that the peep at E14 is very useful for Black in running out with the F17 stone. (This by no means a final decision, of course - I will reconsider the best way of defending if the decision actually comes up on the board.)

4. Whatever happens, it seems clear that this top-left corner is going to be abandoned after another 3 or 4 moves. B19 looks like it will be a fairly huge point come the endgame - I make it about 4 points in double sente. But I feel it would be foolish for either of us to play it at this stage - Black's follow up at C19 is only a 1-point move, so black at B19 isn't actually sente until very late in the endgame, and if Black tries it before I shall be very happy to ignore it. If I play B19, of course, it's still extremely sente (hmm, are there degrees of "sente-ness"? :-?

), as it threatens to kill Black's group - but for this very reason I would much rather keep it in reserve as a ko threat. (In fact, if it comes to a ko fight and I'm after threats here, I think playing one at B17 first will yield a second ko threat.)

Posted: **Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:36 am**

work and computer problems to be precise, double shifts/broken batteries, anyway, here's my move move though later. All apologies.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm23 robinz vs DIV - Move 23; prisoners: Black 0 White 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 1 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:51 am**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm24 robinz vs DIV - Move 24; prisoners: Black 0 White 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:14 am**

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:52 am**

Hey robinz, sorry about the delayed play lately. I have the next three days off and will be making more moves more regularly. I can't wait to take a look at all the thoughts posted for this game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm25 robinz vs DIV - Move 25; prisoners: Black 0 White 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . 1 . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:24 am**

Hi, no problem with the delay - life is allowed to get in the way occasionally

As it happens, I'm going to be a busy for most of the rest of today, and for much of tomorrow - but I think you'll probably be asleep for most of this time anyway, so that might not matter so much ;-)

I'm not going to move just yet, as I have a few things to think about.

PS: You mention you can't wait to read others' comments on the game - I feel the same, but surely we can't do this until the game is over. (Which I guess might well not be until next year, at the current rate, unless one of us decides to resign early anyway :lol:

)

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:10 am**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm25 robinz vs DIV - Move 25; prisoners: Black 0 White 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . X . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black should not have left the sente turn here.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:42 pm**

Ooh, more comments from stronger players - excellent, although so frustrating that I won't be able to read them for months. Hope you enjoy our game Redundant, despite all the faults that doubtless will be and already have been perpetrated

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm26 robinz vs DIV - Move 26; prisoners: Black 0 White 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . X . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

OK, I'm back now. (Have spent the day playing bridge - something I play much better than Go, although I guess that's natural given I've been playing it for 10 years and not 5 months - but still got the occasional time to mull over this position in my head.) This is the move I much prefer of the options I mentioned in my last post. (And I haven't seen any more that I like.)

Firstly, attempting to cut the extension seems to be just as bad as my first reaction said it was - firstly, I don't actually think it works, and even if it does I will probably end up taking gote to capture a stone and end up with what looks like a horribly over-concentrated position.

Playing at L17 or M17 doesn't seem great either, as black can just cap me and leave me with nowhere to run to. A sample sequence might be something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc robinz vs DIV - Move 26; prisoners: Black 0 White 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . X . . X . 1 . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . 3 . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . 4 . 2 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

- I've no idea if 4 here is black's best move, but whatever happens I've just created a very weak-looking group which black can have fun chasing around and building outside strength with; just what I don't want. (And that's even if I manage to live, which looks difficult enough in itself.)

But this cap which I've just played looks like it works OK for me. I think black has to jump out on the other side, at F15, or I can play there (or nearby) to put real pressure on the black group. But then I think I have at least a couple of tenable options - the shoulder hit at G14 looks interesting, for one. The plan will be to try to build up outside influence towards the centre (hopefully linking up with the wall at some point) while harassing black's stones. After all, at a later point I can always slide underneath the black group from my ponnuki to try to steal some eyespace.

I've tried to think up specific variations, but it's unclear to me just where black will play, and I think I should be able to come up with something against most if not all moves. It also somehow "feels" natural, about the right distance away from the wall (a 4-space extension from a 3-stone wall, right? although I guess the wall as a whole is rather taller than that). While I realise my feel for the game is still pretty weak right now, I don't think it can be a bad thing to make moves by "feel" in positions where reading variations proves hard. At least I'll learn something (from observers' comments, as well as from what actually happens in the game) if my intuition turns out to be wrong ;-)

We're now moving into what could easily be the decisive phase of the game - I hope I don't mess it up too badly! :lol:

Life In 19x19

77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]