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95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=3105

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Re:

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:45 am
by emeraldemon
Expanding a little on what EdLee and Loons wrote: If W ignores :b1: , :b3: is tesuji:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -------------
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. X . . . . . |
$$. . . , X . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . 1 . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . O . . |
$$. . . , . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . 4 3 . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . . O 5 . |
$$. . . O X . . |
$$. . . , X . . |
$$. X . X . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$---------------[/go]


So White usually jumps up, and then I think descending is good.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -------------
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. X . . . . . |
$$. . . , X . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . 1 . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . 2 . O . . |
$$. . . , . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . 3 . . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . . O 4 . |
$$. . . O X . . |
$$. . . , X . . |
$$. X . X . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$---------------[/go]


There's still useful aji in :b3: , but I think White is ok here.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:56 am
by Violence
Jeez, this reminds me of something I would've played at the level of 9k, I'd just come out swinging.

I hope Balmung is confident in his reading.

As someone else pointed out, this is not even the correct invasion point.

To invade at all suggests that black's Go these days is... somewhat fundamentally troubled.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:42 pm
by Loons
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$. . . , . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . 1 . . |
$$. . . O . 2 . |
$$. . . . O . . |
$$. . . O X . . |
$$. . . , X . . |
$$. X . X . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$---------------[/go]


Local shape, just out of interest.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:45 pm
by balmung
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I hope I read this out correctly. White has two weaknesses in the shape which I'm about to exploit

The first 2 is mandatory or a is because white does not want black to play a and connect


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B1cm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


3 is how I get out if after he defends the first weakness
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B1cm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 O 3 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O 5 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


but I think he will hane from the other side and I have strategy to build an upper right moyo while sacrificing the invasion stones.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:50 pm
by topazg
Balmung:

balmung wrote:
I have strategy to build an upper right moyo while sacrificing the invasion stones.


Why did you invade here if you intend on sacrificing them - why did you decide not just to build the upper right moyo?

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:06 pm
by Aphelion
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . W . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:49 pm
by Tommie
Not for either player.

In an earlier thread emotions were mentioned.
What I've seen here until now,
is emotion-free, tactically & strategically
nowhere near 3k (EGF) level (by Black).

Reasoning & explanations were even worse than the moves themselves.
(Perhaps s.o. will not like me for these remarks - however objectively,
from being +9H better - I dare to say so.)
Moves themselves were sufficiently commented already.

This will sound harsh, yet proper self-perception or books are needed
to re--adjust the difference between ego and skill of Black's play.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:05 am
by Violence
I'd have to agree with you, Tommie.

At least back when I was 9k, I admitted that I had no idea what I was doing when I invaded hardcore like this.

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:24 am
by EdLee
Not for either player.
More local shapes, for fun. :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -------------
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. X . . . . . |
$$. . . , X . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . B . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . O . . |
$$. . . a . b . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . 1 . . |
$$. . . O . 2 . |
$$. . . . O . . |
$$. . . O X . . |
$$. . . , X . . |
$$. X . X . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$---------------[/go]

:b3: can be at (a) or (b), depending on global considerations. Standard sequences follow.

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:40 am
by EdLee
@Violence.
Violence wrote:back when I was 9k, I admitted that I had no idea what I was doing when I invaded hardcore like this.
Sign of wisdom. :clap:

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:50 am
by emeraldemon
I agree the opening has been bad, but many players make to 7 kyu or so without understanding opening. If the midgame is strong, I'll believe balmung is 7 kyu.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:03 am
by Tommie
not for either player
Violence wrote:
I'd have to agree with you, Tommie.

At least back when I was 9k, I admitted that I had no idea what I was doing when I invaded hardcore like this.

Violence, for me it's 30 years ago for me that I was DDK to 5k
and I could grab some old kifu (I have some) to make probably even Balmung laugh.

I do not criticise the moves so much which go along a certain Go level (there will undoubtely also be many good ones among them),
it is this dicrepance that Balmung boasted in another thread having '1-3k fighting strength'
and losing by emotions,
while it appears to me that he has 10k fighting strength + boasting self-perception.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:18 am
by daniel_the_smith
Let's not be *too* hard on Balmung. He's actually being a good sport for playing this game after the last thread he started.

I think every go player goes through a phase where they think they know something about this game. Then reality eventually (and painfully) forces its way into their brain...

Eventually you have to stop making excuses for yourself and accept that you're not as good as you hoped.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:33 am
by balmung
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O B . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:35 am
by balmung
topazg wrote:Balmung:

balmung wrote:
I have strategy to build an upper right moyo while sacrificing the invasion stones.


Why did you invade here if you intend on sacrificing them - why did you decide not just to build the upper right moyo?


The invasion was a mistake I made when I had just woke up. So the best I can do now is try to gain profit from the stones.
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