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Gang Malkovich 1: Magicwand vs the Gang of Five

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=3464

Page 3 of 11

Re: Gang Malkovich 1: Magicwand vs the Gang of Five

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:48 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
My suggestion for move 6:
My suggestion is R5:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If he tries to get too agressive, he will find himslef overstretched like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . 4 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


A small pincer would be insipid:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


and a standard corner extension allows us a strong group while his side stone is floating:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Organizational thoughts:
topazg wrote:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:About SL: Fine by me if someone copies to SL, but I'd like to see the discussion here.


Doesn't it make more sense for both us and the observers to have the discussion on SL? That way, we can post just once here, with the entire conversation. I can see this thread getting _really_ noisy otherwise, I think SL discussion will make it a lot cleaner and easier on everyone.


SL is not immune to overcrowding. At least here we can keep stuff managable with hide tags.
Yeah, this may get noisy, but for a serious discussion of moves, we are going to often want several diagrams per person. That will really saturate SL.

Re: Gang Malkovich 1: Magicwand vs the Gang of Five

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:18 am
by mw42
@Joaz

There is no reason to keep the discussion on SL once it has been posted here so it should stay fairly clean.

Re: Gang Malkovich 1: Magicwand vs the Gang of Five

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:27 am
by Magicwand
for obs only:
i believe i can give 2 stone or more to everyone except topazg.
but if i play to win..i believe i can give him 2 stone also.(although he has more chance to win)
i will try my best to win this game. i am used to playing crazy handycap game for money so this is nothing new.

comment so far:
my marked white stone is unusual approach designed for out boxing.
if you want to be strong at handycap game ...avoid black's attack much as possible in the beginning and build your influence and thickness. that influence will give you chance to grab the flow.
i want to avoid their attack much as possible and that one more space will do just that.

also i want to be attacking his group much as possible.
all i need is one flow that will turn this game around.

once i reach close to even game...i will not let go of few point lead.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Gang Malkovich 1: Magicwand vs the Gang of Five

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:34 am
by daniel_the_smith
Opinion at Sensei's is 4-1 in favor of the two space pincer. But I propose we give Joaz a chance to respond to the criticisms of his move before we play it.

Re: Gang Malkovich 1: Magicwand vs the Gang of Five

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:29 am
by Joaz Banbeck
I'll go with the majority:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 . . 5 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Gang Malkovich 1: Magicwand vs the Gang of Five

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:33 am
by daniel_the_smith
For observers, The "gang's" thoughts:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm5 Move Suggestion ()
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . d b . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . g . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . f . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


=== Move 4 ===


[topazg] ... he's decided to go all exciting on us. My gut feeling is to play "a", aiming at "b" or "c". If he wants a fight, let's give it to him. However, it may be better to pincer first and let him chase us into attacking the other side. If we do this, I'd pincer the latest stone, as that's the one that will be able to look after itself when the dust settles (because the top left is our stone, and the bottom right is his).

[Dusk Eagle] I suggest staying one back with a move at 'd'. I've heard from somewhere and it makes sense to me that, after white does a one-space jump and we do the same, having the stone a line further away makes is harder to attack.

As for the whole pincer-vs.-not-pincer debate, I think pincering first keeps a better flow going. If we don't pincer first, Magicwand may well be able to extend along the top side and our one-space jump stone at 'a' won't be as good.

Edit: So now I've looked it up using GoGoD (substituting a more common approach on the right), and both pincers seem playable, though 'd' is played slightly more often than 'b'. However, 'a' directly is rather seldomly played.

[topazg] Yeah, I was just thinking it's bad unless we already have a stone on the right hand side. I'm happier with either "b" or "d" than "a" now :)

[daniel the smith] I think ''d'', white jumps, then ''a'' is standard and much more efficient than ''a'' directly. ''d'' would be my move. I think MW is just being a bully, this has to be too early for white.

[JoazBanbeck] Running at 'a' seems premature to me. Isn't there some proverb about the smaller the gap, the more effective is your play when you split it? True, we do not want to get locked in the corner, but he cannot lock us in with one move. I'm generally in favor of pincering something.

After some thought, I favor the approach at 'f'. It is effectively a very long pincer, and it is difficult for him to make an effective play on the side against us. See my L19 post for details.

[Kirby] I like "d". The stones in the top right are pretty strong, and "d" takes away his approaching stone's base.

[topazg] Ok, so dusk, daniel, Kirby and myself all seem to be opting for "d" - Joaz, you want the lower right approach at R6. You say the shorter pincer in insipid, but I'm not sure why Black should be happy with the following board position:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm6 Joaz' suggestion - how to follow?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White has a fairly hard to attack group on the right, and Black's corner is suddenly in more danger. I want to play somewhere around White 7 as Black, but I think the preparatory pincer on top should allow us to push White around. In this board position, I think White will do the pushing - how had you intended Black to continue from here?

[daniel the smith]: Sorry Joaz :) I really really don't like that move. If things go as Joaz suggested at L19, both players have a lot of groups, but I feel like white's groups are much more flexible. And topazg's diagram above looks horrible for black. Additionally, I think that the approach is on the wrong side ("approach from the open side"). (I should note, I'm glad someone advocated some other move and I hope people will continue to do so even if most of the time it gets shot down.)

One other thought: our two stones on the top are now for fighting (before white's last move they could fight or make a big house). We need weak white groups around them so they can be effective. This is why I think white's move is bad; he needed to stabilize his other stone first. Now we (should) get one strong group between two weak white groups.

[Dusk Eagle] I don't think it's good to let our top two stones come under attack unless we are simultaneously attacking a white group. That's what the pincer at 'd' is to help do. If we play the approach, I'm concerned white will be able to solidify his groups before turning to attack our top one.


[JoazBanbeck] It was just a matter of style. I see nothing wrong with 'd', so I'll happily go with the majority. ( I would have argued vigorously you you guys had wanted 'a'. )

Re: Gang Malkovich 1: Magicwand vs the Gang of Five

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:39 am
by Bill Spight
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm5 Move Suggestion ()
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I am sort of surprised that nobody mentioned these plays.

I like the actual move. :)

Re: Gang Malkovich 1: Magicwand vs the Gang of Five

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:42 am
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i expect the below variation.
it will make things more complicated for black (and also white)
they might not play :b8: and play something else...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 9 . . X . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Gang Malkovich 1: Magicwand vs the Gang of Five

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:43 am
by Bill Spight
My sealed plan.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 3 . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 . . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:)


Edit: Great minds think alike. ;)

Re: Gang Malkovich 1: Magicwand vs the Gang of Five

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:59 am
by Dusk Eagle
Then one evening Kitabatake came to us with an interesting proposal. 'There's a Japanese Go master passing through Berlin, a professor of mathematics on his way to London as an exchange professor. Would you like to play him?' 'Of course we would.' Lasker replied, 'and I'll play him in consultation with my brother Berthold, if you don't think he'll mind?' 'Of course he won't.' 'Well' continued Lasker, 'do you think he'll give us a handicap?' "Certainly', laughed Kitbatake. 'And how many stones?' 'Nine of course.' 'That's impossible', Lasker replied decisively. 'The man in the world who can give me nine stones and beat me doesn't exist!' Kitabatake just smiled, and soon we found ourselves at the Japanese club playing the master on nine stones.

No matter how long we took to plot our combinations the master never took more than a tenth of a second for his reply, and he beat us terrifically. I don't think we had a single live group at game's end.

Re: Gang Malkovich 1: Magicwand vs the Gang of Five

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:39 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Dusk Eagle wrote:
Then one evening Kitabatake came to us with an interesting proposal. 'There's a Japanese Go master passing through Berlin, a professor of mathematics on his way to London as an exchange professor. Would you like to play him?' 'Of course we would.' Lasker replied, 'and I'll play him in consultation with my brother Berthold, if you don't think he'll mind?' 'Of course he won't.' 'Well' continued Lasker, 'do you think he'll give us a handicap?' "Certainly', laughed Kitbatake. 'And how many stones?' 'Nine of course.' 'That's impossible', Lasker replied decisively. 'The man in the world who can give me nine stones and beat me doesn't exist!' Kitabatake just smiled, and soon we found ourselves at the Japanese club playing the master on nine stones.

No matter how long we took to plot our combinations the master never took more than a tenth of a second for his reply, and he beat us terrifically. I don't think we had a single live group at game's end.


You think we should have given Magicwand nine stones???

Re: Gang Malkovich 1: Magicwand vs the Gang of Five

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:03 pm
by Dusk Eagle
@Joaz
No, it was just an interesting tidbit from http://users.eniinternet.com/bradleym/America.html. It seemed related, thought hopefully our game won't be anything like that.

Re: Gang Malkovich 1: Magicwand vs the Gang of Five

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:19 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Gang Malkovich 1: Magicwand vs the Gang of Five

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:20 pm
by Dusk Eagle
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Dusk Eagle: So, I propose 'a'. It moves out and keeps white's groups separated. I had also thought about 'b', but the shape seems a lot weaker - Magicwand could peep at our shape and it would have some serious holes.

topazg: Me too, and this is exactly why I wanted it before, albeit the wrong move order at the time.

daniel the smith: It's hard for me to imagine something other than a here.

JoazBanbeck: I agree.

Kirby: I think that a is the only move. On a related note, maybe we can consider what we have in store for us. I am almost certain that he will try to put pressure on our single stone with something like F16/17 or G16/17 (there is a small chance he might play M13 next to get more strength, but I doubt it). I wonder what we might do against this attack.


Joaz beat me to the diagram by a split second :razz:

Re: Gang Malkovich 1: Magicwand vs the Gang of Five

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:19 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 9 . . X . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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