Life In 19x19

Not to go too far into this threadjack, but a serious question for those Mac users --- How many other platform-indepenent java applications do you regularly work with, and do they have "Mac Standard" copy/paste functionality? From what I've seen in my brief search looking into it, the only way to really get Mac copy/paste to work in a GUI is if you rebuild a second look and feel from the ground up, detect the OS, and use the new look and feel if you detect a Mac (alternatively remap the keyboard?). It would appear Ctrl+C /Ctrl+V is not just a Windows thing, it's a Java thing.

Mef wrote:Not to go too far into this threadjack, but a serious question for those Mac users --- How many other platform-indepenent java applications do you regularly work with, and do they have "Mac Standard" copy/paste functionality? From what I've seen in my brief search looking into it, the only way to really get Mac copy/paste to work in a GUI is if you rebuild a second look and feel from the ground up, detect the OS, and use the new look and feel if you detect a Mac (alternatively remap the keyboard?). It would appear Ctrl+C /Ctrl+V is not just a Windows thing, it's a Java thing.

I don't use any other Java applications. It's quite possible (but irrelevant) that they're all broken in the same way; I'm just reporting a bug with KGS.

However, you don't need to "rebuild a second look and feel from the ground up" to fix this. Apple describes the fix in this document: http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/ ... ation.html

Mef wrote:Not to go too far into this threadjack, but a serious question for those Mac users --- How many other platform-indepenent java applications do you regularly work with, and do they have "Mac Standard" copy/paste functionality? From what I've seen in my brief search looking into it, the only way to really get Mac copy/paste to work in a GUI is if you rebuild a second look and feel from the ground up, detect the OS, and use the new look and feel if you detect a Mac (alternatively remap the keyboard?). It would appear Ctrl+C /Ctrl+V is not just a Windows thing, it's a Java thing.

I don't think that Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V is a java thing, because you can perform whatever action you want on whatever keys that you happen to listen to.

It also looks to me that wms has his own look & feel, anyway. At least it doesn't look like a run-of-the-mill swing app, for example (oh no, swing!).

In any case, you can add stuff to the system clipboard and get information from it programmatically, so you could setup whatever keys that you want to trigger such an operation without making a new look & feel, I believe.

antispin wrote:I'd love for there to be an option to turn the byo-yomi warning sounds to 'five,four,three,two,one' rather than 'beep beep beep beep beep'.

Think I would lose fewer games on time that way.

- It's possible to adjust the warning time to lower, so that when it starts beeping/blinking you know it's time to make a move.

uPWarrior wrote:Actually, UNIX/Linux style is ctrl+insert and shift+insert, ctrl+c and ctrl+v were recently introduced ...

Ah, I didn't realize. I've only been using Linux for eight years. So perhaps KGS was a little parochial when it started up, but surely by now we can all accept that a variety of Ctrl-* functions are common to both Windows and Linux, whereas the 10% of the market that uses Macs have a different set of expectations.

palapiku wrote:As an analogy, no matter how big a fan of the metric system you might be, it would be strange for a US-based company to require customers to use metric measurements.

Well, I've never seen anyone learn to do science with feet, pounds, slugs, and calories, so I'd assume that a huge amount of US-based product design is in metric units. We could say that this represents a usability bug, and that international journals should put out different editions for metric countries and English countries, but in practice being forced to do science in an alien idiom is the price we pay for having an idiosyncratic system of measurment.

jts wrote:You may not think of copy and paste as application specific, but outside the Mac-user bubble, the rest of the world doesn't think of Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V as system specific shortcuts. My muscle memory tells me that Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V will copy and paste on any system... a heuristic which only fails on the Mac.

Systems introduce conventions that applications then typically conform to. It's the most pronounced with the Mac, where there are really strong conventions, but it's true of every system (even Ubuntu, where I sometimes think that each application randomly shuffles the keyboard shortcuts). Imagine if a Mac user ported their app to Windows/Linux and created a menu bar that stays at the top of the screen.

palapiku wrote:I don't use any other Java applications. It's quite possible (but irrelevant) that they're all broken in the same way; I'm just reporting a bug with KGS.

However, you don't need to "rebuild a second look and feel from the ground up" to fix this. Apple describes the fix in this document: http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/ ... ation.html

That link is mentioned in the link I already posted, however the developer workaround doesn't work if you use Java's built in platform-independent UI components, they use their own keyboard shortcuts directly --

From the link I originally posted wrote:
In Mac OS X, the common key binding for paste is Command-V. You don't have the Command key in other environments, where the Control key does the same job. For that reason, you should use java.awt.Tookit.getMenuShortcutKeyMask() when initialising accelerator keys for your menu bars. Then either Control or Command is used, depending on which is the convention in the given environment. This is documented in, e.g., Java Development Guide for Mac OS X:

http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/ ... evelopment

So far so good. But what about pasting text into text boxes? JTextArea supports keyboards shortcuts directly. However it uses the Control convention on all platforms.

So you could define your own listener, but it would not be able to copy and paste from KGS text boxes.

Kirby wrote:I don't think that Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V is a java thing, because you can perform whatever action you want on whatever keys that you happen to listen to.

It also looks to me that wms has his own look & feel, anyway. At least it doesn't look like a run-of-the-mill swing app, for example (oh no, swing!).

I believe you are correct that wms made his own look and feel (though it is Swing....it even got featured in Sun's Swing Sightings years ago!), but that's not what the problem is...Using the Mac shortcuts at the look and feel level means you need a second look and feel with the new functionality (as well as the old one), otherwise you just reverse the problem (and windows users will have windows key + C and windows key + V instead of control + C and control + V). In order to get it to work for both systems you would need to have 2 look and feels with the different functionality and call whichever one was desirable for the detected OS. Likewise any changes made to the UI would need to be updated on both.

so.. from what I understand. Is it safe to say that when using a mac, you could use Control C and Control V to copy and paste instead of command? That's something I didn't understand when I first started using a mac so that would explain why I've been confused.

If this is correct, then my problem is solved on that level ^^

but is there a way to fix the buddy thing on a mac? or why is it different on a mac than a normal pc? could someone explain that?

One of my friends on kgs menyioned that one idea for improving kgs is to have an opponents list next to the buddies list. I wanted to throw this out here if anyone liked it enough to think it could be something one could add to kgs

EeveeM wrote:but is there a way to fix the buddy thing on a mac? or why is it different on a mac than a normal pc? could someone explain that?

In what way do you think its different?

It seems the same to me.

EeveeM wrote:so.. from what I understand. Is it safe to say that when using a mac, you could use Control C and Control V to copy and paste instead of command? That's something I didn't understand when I first started using a mac so that would explain why I've been confused.

If this is correct, then my problem is solved on that level ^^

but is there a way to fix the buddy thing on a mac? or why is it different on a mac than a normal pc? could someone explain that?

EeveeM wrote:One of my friends on kgs menyioned that one idea for improving kgs is to have an opponents list next to the buddies list. I wanted to throw this out here if anyone liked it enough to think it could be something one could add to kgs

I'm going to go ahead and take a shot in the dark and say that the Buddy list issue started around the time the player notes feature was added? One change that happened is that when you are on the buddies list you now not only need to type in the name of the player you want to buddy, you also need to type a note about that player (actually, you can leave the note blank, but you at least need to move the cursor to the note box and press enter). The notes feature may also take care of your second request, since you can add the "opponents" to your buddy list and then put a player note on them labeling them (the player notes appear when you mouseover the buddy on the user list).

a feature to mute the stone sound will be great since it is really noisy the TAK TAK TAK during KGS+ lessons

Kaliwan wrote:a feature to mute the stone sound will be great since it is really noisy the TAK TAK TAK during KGS+ lessons

File menu-> set preferences -> "Sound enabled?" can take off the stone sound for your computer-- However this won't be effective if the lecturer has the sound on their computer and it is coming over the microphone (=

[mof quote]

I'm going to go ahead and take a shot in the dark and say that the Buddy list issue started around the time the player notes feature was added? One change that happened is that when you are on the buddies list you now not only need to type in the name of the player you want to buddy, you also need to type a note about that player (actually, you can leave the note blank, but you at least need to move the cursor to the note box and press enter). The notes feature may also take care of your second request, since you can add the "opponents" to your buddy list and then put a player note on them labeling them (the player notes appear when you mouseover the buddy on the user list).[/quote]

Thank you mef I didn't know this before, I'll give it a try, sounds like a cool feature

wms wrote:My upcoming projects:

#1 - Finish the current release. Mostly it will be extra support tools for admins. Also includes one feature for users, not a huge one.
#2 - A better client for Android tablets. Right now the tablet client is very much like the phone client, which is kind of stupid because the phone client tries hard to leave out stuff in order to fit everything into a 4" screen.
#3 - Move to new hardware. Probably at a new ISP. My current ISP has been bought twice since I first moved to them, and their prices are now astronomically higher than their competitors.
#4 - Major change which I'd rather not talk all that much about. It does relate to what I've discussed before here, in that it is a big modernization of the client.

However there is something else on the horizon that may or may not happen, and if it does, it will mean reworking this list a lot. We'll see.

KGS is not done. But progress on it does move slowly.

@#2: The android client got me into the smart phone market, and as soon as a tablet optimized kgs is released, I'll definitely go there as well. Any news on this?