Life In 19x19

jts wrote:Now, obviously if you have some website that you trust more than an American medical professional, I can say nothing more.

This presumes 1) that there is agreement among medical professionals (do doctors in Europe also say this?) and 2) that they are basing their advice on what the accumulated knowledge of medical professionals--one article I read said that the advice originated from a misreading of a study. Also, since drinking eight glasses definitely doesn't seem to hurt you, unlike some historically bad medical advice, it's not so likely to be revised.

Now, am I going to go up to a doctor and say "you're wrong, because I've read stuff online?" No, I'm usually not quite that dumb. But I might still harbor my doubts.

There are lots of things that doctors get wrong. Fortunately, most of them are not life-threatening. There are lots of ideas that have become common that turn out to be false. (The NYT has a column where they look at health myths and say whether they are true or false.)

For example, the myth that spinach has a lot of iron was based on a mistake made more than 130 years ago:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinach#Sp ... d_the_myth

kirkmc wrote:There are lots of things that doctors get wrong. Fortunately, most of them are not life-threatening. There are lots of ideas that have become common that turn out to be false. (The NYT has a column where they look at health myths and say whether they are true or false.)

For example, the myth that spinach has a lot of iron was based on a mistake made more than 130 years ago:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinach#Sp ... d_the_myth

kirkmc, that link says that the story about the mistake 130 years ago was the myth, and that it was vitamin A content, not iron, that led to spinach being chosen as Popeye's favourite food.

Higher up in the article it points out that spinach is a rich source of iron:

"a 180 g serving of boiled spinach contains 6.43 mg of iron, whereas one 170 g ground hamburger patty contains at most 4.42 mg"

On topic, I view myself as really quite healthy. I don't do capoeira as much as this time last year due to lack of time because of my twins. That's led to me putting on a little bit of weight, but I'm still on the lower side of the ideal weight band for my height and age. I'd really like to get back down to my pre-twin weight and fitness.

I drink a scary amount of tea every day, and supplement it with water. I definitely get dehydrated very easily, which results in me getting headaches and feeling very lethargic. Sadly, I didn't realise this for quite a few years; it was only when I went to the doctor about the lethargy, and he suggested drinking more water, that I put two and two together. (I was worried about diabetes, but luckily that all came up negative.)

I'm also vegetarian, which doesn't intrinsically mean that you're more healthy, but my wife and I love to cook and we have a very varied diet with all the right things in it.

So everything's good here.

The paper referenced from the Wikipedia article is well worth a read, regarding the Popeye/spinach link: http://www.internetjournalofcriminology.com/Sutton_Spinach_Iron_and_Popeye_March_2010.pdf. (I love papers like that.)

There are also far more subtle issues related to how much iron you get from spinach according to how it's cooked, but this probably isn't the right place for that discussion.

tealeaf wrote:The paper referenced from the Wikipedia article is well worth a read, regarding the Popeye/spinach link: http://www.internetjournalofcriminology.com/Sutton_Spinach_Iron_and_Popeye_March_2010.pdf. (I love papers like that.)

There are also far more subtle issues related to how much iron you get from spinach according to how it's cooked, but this probably isn't the right place for that discussion.

Not only how it's cooked, but also how much vitamin C you consume. Like many nutrients, there's an interplay with other nutrients.

tealeaf wrote:
I'm also vegetarian, which doesn't intrinsically mean that you're more healthy, but my wife and I love to cook and we have a very varied diet with all the right things in it.

I was a vegetarian for a long time, then, when my son was born 20 years ago, started eating meat again. (I don't think it's wise to not give kids meat.) Honestly, I did feel better eating meat than before, even though I was cooking a varied range of foods. I don't eat a lot of meat - we're big on brown rice, locally baked whole-weat bread, and local vegetables - but we get some amazing lamb and chickens (again, local), and I wouldn't give them up for anything.

kirkmc wrote:(I don't think it's wise to not give kids meat.)

No offence, but I didn't want to leave this statement out there without disputing it (assuming that it's based on nutritional rather than moral or philosophical reasons). I'm raising my twins vegetarian, and I looked into it very carefully when making the decision to do that. I often run into an unfounded belief that children need to eat meat when growing up, not least from my own family and even from the occasional doctor. It's simply not true according to current mainstream research, provided that you eat a healthy and well-balanced vegetarian diet.

It's even possible to raise a child vegan and get all the necessary nutrients, but you have to be extremely careful, and would probably need include fortified or supplemented foods.

Having said that, it's much easier to get all your dietary requirements from meat so having meat in the diet is an easy (and, I admit, delicious) way to make up for deficiencies elsewhere.

I'm certainly not evangelising, but I felt obliged to counter what I view as another very persistent and unfounded urban myth. (Easy, if not most detailed, reference: http://www.vegsoc.org/health/ and http://www.vegsoc.org/document.doc?id=9)

(As an aside, I've been vegetarian for about five years, for ethical reasons, and can't say that I noticed any difference in energy when making the transition. My wife has been vegetarian from birth. We're both very healthy. )

BaghwanB wrote:If that was true, I would have been a dessicated husk around 15 years ago. In one period of my life, I spent years drinking practically nothing but coffee and the occasional soda (and very rare fruit juice or Gatorade-style drink).

Judging by your avatar, it looks like the old wives' tale about coffee putting hair on your chest is quite true.

{ducking}

kirkmc wrote:There are lots of things that doctors get wrong. Fortunately, most of them are not life-threatening. There are lots of ideas that have become common that turn out to be false. (The NYT has a column where they look at health myths and say whether they are true or false.)

For example, the myth that spinach has a lot of iron was based on a mistake made more than 130 years ago:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinach#Sp ... d_the_myth

There are also lots of things that Wikipedia gets wrong. There are also lots of things that people summarizing knowledge which they have gleaned from WP get wrong. On the whole, though, what doctors are taught in American medical schools is, for all that I care, the sine qua non of authoritative medical knowledge. (And, hyperpape, it's not that I think American doctors are better than European doctors, it's just that the education of an American doctor is a good benchmark; the rest of the OECD has comparable medical outcomes, but different countries have different educational and licensing requirements, and the US is on one extreme of the spectrum.)

Fedya wrote:

BaghwanB wrote:If that was true, I would have been a dessicated husk around 15 years ago. In one period of my life, I spent years drinking practically nothing but coffee and the occasional soda (and very rare fruit juice or Gatorade-style drink).

Judging by your avatar, it looks like the old wives' tale about coffee putting hair on your chest is quite true.

{ducking}

Now if it'd just apply to the top of my head...

Bruce "Tonsure" Young

I'm healthier than most. Which is pretty depressing in some ways because I don't think I put a whole lot of effort into being healthy.

I exercise regularly, I eat sort of well, a mix of healthy and unhealthy food, but I do make sure to eat reasonable portions and to avoid snacks, eating only at meals. I do avoid sodas, mostly because I don't much like sweet drinks; so I drink only water, tea, and alcohol (beer or wine mostly), and the alcohol is in moderation. And in the end I'm thin, with good blood pressure and great cholesterol levels, and in pretty good shape. Maybe I got lucky with my genes, or maybe it really isn't that hard to be in good shape. Not sure which it is.

wms wrote:... Maybe I got lucky with my genes, or maybe it really isn't that hard to be in good shape. Not sure which it is.

I can't say for sure, either, as I cannot claim to have put much effort into being healthy, myself (I think I am unhealthy, by the way). I suspect that most people can probably be healthy if they give enough effort.

I have been trying to run every weekday, but I do not exercise everyday. I recently went to the doctor, and since that time (about two weeks ago) I have exercised every weekday, but I hope that I have the perseverance to keep it up.

I do know that, when I was in high school, I was on the cross-country running team, and practiced every day. I was a lot thinner at that time, but I still had borderline high blood pressure. I do not know why.

It might be what I eat, because I have never really tried dieting. When I think I need to lose weight, I always resort to running. Maybe I should try to be concerned with what I eat, too.

Kirby wrote:

wms wrote:... Maybe I got lucky with my genes, or maybe it really isn't that hard to be in good shape. Not sure which it is.

I can't say for sure, either, as I cannot claim to have put much effort into being healthy, myself (I think I am unhealthy, by the way). I suspect that most people can probably be healthy if they give enough effort.

I have been trying to run every weekday, but I do not exercise everyday. I recently went to the doctor, and since that time (about two weeks ago) I have exercised every weekday, but I hope that I have the perseverance to keep it up.

I do know that, when I was in high school, I was on the cross-country running team, and practiced every day. I was a lot thinner at that time, but I still had borderline high blood pressure. I do not know why.

It might be what I eat, because I have never really tried dieting. When I think I need to lose weight, I always resort to running. Maybe I should try to be concerned with what I eat, too.

Have you ever tried any calisthenics for a prolonged period? Push-ups, squats; you may or may not be able to do pull-ups, but there are many ways to do a pulling movement.

A light, progressive calisthenics schedule would help you to build a little bit of muscle which can have a significant effect on your metabolism and blood pressure.

tealeaf wrote: I'm certainly not evangelising, but I felt obliged to counter what I view as another very persistent and unfounded urban myth. (Easy, if not most detailed, reference: http://www.vegsoc.org/health/ and http://www.vegsoc.org/document.doc?id=9)

(As an aside, I've been vegetarian for about five years, for ethical reasons, and can't say that I noticed any difference in energy when making the transition. My wife has been vegetarian from birth. We're both very healthy. )

Thanks for the info tealeaf. I'm also a vegetarian (but I've been vegan, pescetarian, carnivore in the past), and appreciate the clearing of the air when it comes to certain dietary superstitions.

In relation to health I've made focussed attempts at improving mine and setting myself up well for the long term, but these attempts oscillate in sequence with extremely bad habits. For the last 8 years I've alternated between weightlifting and smoking, water and coffee, late nights and routine, Etc. To my surprise, at the end of this I find I'm a pretty healthy person and I'm currently in a strong upswing. However it's been a rare occurrence for me to get sick, regardless of which phase I'm in. I almost never get to the sniffles or nausea stage. Maybe some people just have strong constitutions over a certain age range. I hope mine doesn't combust as I get older (assuming I maintain good habits).

cdybeijing wrote:Have you ever tried any calisthenics for a prolonged period? Push-ups, squats; you may or may not be able to do pull-ups, but there are many ways to do a pulling movement.

A light, progressive calisthenics schedule would help you to build a little bit of muscle which can have a significant effect on your metabolism and blood pressure.

In the past when I've exercised, I've stuck to running, pretty much.

It's funny that you mention pushups, though. Since going to the doctor, I actually looked up some iPod apps, and found one for pushup training and one for situp training. I guess it's kind of silly to need an app to do pushups or situps, but in any case, I have been trying them out.

What I've been doing most recently - which has only been for about a week and a half, now - is to run for 30 minutes, and after that do the daily situp workout as dictated by my iPod app, and then do the daily pushup workout, also as dictated by my iPod app.

The pushup workout is definitely the hardest - it may be partially due to the fact that I do it last, after having ran and done situps.

I don't know how it will work out, yet. Maybe I can add pull-ups to my workout. The small gym that I use doesn't have weights, though, so squats may be difficult (unless I find another place to exercise).

I guess we'll see how it goes. I exercised only three times this week, though. The doctor said that I should exercise at least 3 or 4 times a week. I exercised on Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday of this week.

I'll have to try to keep at it harder.