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Sevis (8k) v. metaperl (10k)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=4057

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Re: Sevis (8k) v. metaperl (10k)

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:01 am
by thequietcenter
oren wrote:
Aphelion wrote:^Prime example of why sgfs aren't suited for this.


Yeah, I was pretty confused by what the current move is.


:)

Re: Sevis (8k) v. metaperl (10k)

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:05 am
by thequietcenter
[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]SZ[19]AP[SmartGo:2.8.3.0]
PW[Sevis]WR[8k]
PB[metaperl]BR[10k]WT[KGS]BT[KGS]
AB[pd][pf][qg:qh][qp][oq]
AW[dd][nd][qf][pg][dp]
PL[W])[/sgf-full]

Re: Sevis (8k) v. metaperl (10k)

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:37 pm
by Sevis
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm12 :white: :black:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Feels satisfactory. Not very happy, though. I wonder if any of the variations in the previous post are actually possible.

Re: Sevis (8k) v. metaperl (10k)

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:51 pm
by thequietcenter
[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]SZ[19]AP[SmartGo:2.8.3.0]
PW[Sevis]WR[8k]
PB[metaperl]BR[10k]WT[KGS]BT[KGS]
AB[pd][qe][pf][qg:qh][qp][oq]
AW[pc][dd][nd][qf][pg][dp]
PL[W])[/sgf-full]

joseki move

Re: Sevis (8k) v. metaperl (10k)

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:16 pm
by Sevis
If it's not too much work, could you please mark the stone you play?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm12 :white: :black:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Will he capture the lone stone, or will he grab sente? In either case, K4 and K16 look like big points. D10 does, too, but not as much. I think K4 is currently biggest, and then I would love to get D10, but would be satisfied with K16.

Re: Sevis (8k) v. metaperl (10k)

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:26 pm
by Mosdefgo
I love reading the thoughts of Go players in a game. Their just so...colorful. :)

Re: Sevis (8k) v. metaperl (10k)

Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:13 am
by thequietcenter
[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]SZ[19]AP[SmartGo:2.8.3.0]
PW[Sevis]WR[8k]
PB[metaperl]BR[10k]WT[KGS]BT[KGS]
AB[lc][pd][qe][pf][qg:qh][qp][oq]
AW[pc:qc][dd][nd][qf][pg][dp]
PL[W])[/sgf-full]

Joseki move.

Re: Sevis (8k) v. metaperl (10k)

Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:15 am
by Sevis
If it's not too much work, could you please mark the stone you play?



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13 :white: :black:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . 2 . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


His move does not feel particularly joseki-like without the extra stone. Also, it seems mildly small -- still sente, but that stone will need to run, and I'll (hopefully) get K4, or have the chance to chase him around if he plays tenuki. I am happy.

Re: Sevis (8k) v. metaperl (10k)

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:58 pm
by thequietcenter
[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]SZ[19]AP[SmartGo:2.8.3.0]
PW[Sevis]WR[8k]
PB[metaperl]BR[10k]WT[KGS]BT[KGS]
AB[ic][lc][pd][qe][pf][qg:qh][qp][oq]
AW[nc:nd][pc:qc][dd][qf][pg][dp]
PL[W])[/sgf-full]

Re: Sevis (8k) v. metaperl (10k)

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:10 pm
by EdLee
For Sevis (after the game),
Another idea for :w14: -- make :bt: heavy first, then attack:
(In the game, you let B settle too easily)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . Y 1 . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 3 . 2 . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Re: Sevis (8k) v. metaperl (10k)

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:21 pm
by Solomon
thequietcenter's stubborn refusal to use ascii diagrams for his convenience rather than the spectator's (which is the whole point of Malkovich games, to cater to the spectators and help weaker spectators understand the reasoning of the moves), lack of writing, and neglect of his opponent's request to mark the last move for his (and the spectator's) sake is very disappointing.

Re: Sevis (8k) v. metaperl (10k)

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:58 pm
by Aphelion
Araban:
From my observation, this kind of stubborness is also a good reason why he doesn't improve very much.

Re: Sevis (8k) v. metaperl (10k)

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:11 am
by Sevis
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 :white: :black:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 2 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Points I would like to have:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16 :white: :black:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . a . X . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . c . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . b . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


a (or one to the left of it, actually) is good for black, but not very important for white. I think I'll play it if I get the chance, but not yet.
b is big for both.
c is big for white

I expect a play at b to be answered at c... Which I can then attack from the top, in order to make that group stronger.

This is also expectable, but, in my opinion, not very big for black:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16 :white: :black:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . X . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 1 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I think I may even take the risk and play D10 in this case, even though it is risky. Not entirely sure.

Re: Sevis (8k) v. metaperl (10k)

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:33 am
by topazg
s'funny, I actually really like sevis' move, but for some reason I really wanted to see this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 :white: :black:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 2 . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This is exactly the sort of position where I have no idea how it's going to pan out - Can Black pincer and accept broken shape? Does he even have to, can he just slide underneath and White has a problem because of the stones in the top right? Can White jump back:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 Looks really bad for White to me
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . 4 . 2 . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Looks good for Black somehow, but yeah, I dunno, this sort of thing always presses my "I wonder what happens if..." buttons. Probably premature in either case.

Re: Sevis (8k) v. metaperl (10k)

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:40 am
by Chew Terr
For later:
Sevis wrote:
Points I would like to have:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16 :white: :black:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . a . X . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . c . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . b . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


a (or one to the left of it, actually) is good for black, but not very important for white. I think I'll play it if I get the chance, but not yet.
b is big for both.
c is big for white

I expect a play at b to be answered at c... Which I can then attack from the top, in order to make that group stronger.

This is also expectable, but, in my opinion, not very big for black:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16 :white: :black:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . X . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 1 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I think I may even take the risk and play D10 in this case, even though it is risky. Not entirely sure.


I would've played 'a' in a heartbeat. Helps your corner stones, saddles black with a weak group. When you have forcing moves like P14, black really doesn't want to let you get an attack there.


Topazg:
You know, because of some recent games I've played, I would probably tenuki your shoulder hit. I know that might be contrary to a lot of rules of thumb, but since P3 is safe and stable enough, I would be sorely tempted to take C6 or something similar.
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