Life In 19x19

imabuddha wrote:So, profanity is allowed on L19 now?

With no one posting, I suspect the admins are not being as vigilant - and Joaz - who tends to be on top of things during this time period, appears to be having a life at the moment, judging by his envy producing thread.

hyperpape wrote:

rubin427 wrote:

daniel_the_smith wrote:Place on the website for rapidly updating the status of the various AGA goals (so, say, you could look at the rating certificate project and find that it needs a volunteer).

my (likely flawed) interpretation: kindly use the wiki for that.

That's probably the right place for it, but we'd also need to make sure that people can find it, which they can't right now.

Let me explain: that stupid crap was going on for 6-7 years with no progress. pwaldron asked for help and got diddly squat from higher up in aga. since then also nothing has happened. just let it DIE DIE DIE. in a fire would be awesome.

Horibe wrote:

imabuddha wrote:So, profanity is allowed on L19 now?

With no one posting, I suspect the admins are not being as vigilant - and Joaz - who tends to be on top of things during this time period, appears to be having a life at the moment, judging by his envy producing thread.

[admin]

Contrary to the opinions of some of my detractors, I do not go about looking for things to censor. The most I do is to regularly glance at the list of reports. If it doesn't get reported, I and other admins may not see it.

There is an icon for reporting posts that are in violation of the TOS. It is the red exclaimation mark in the lower right of every post. Please use it in circumstances like this.


The posts that are clearly in violation of the TOS will be changed. If you wish to continue a discussion on the subject, please PM me or start a new thread in the 'Bugs and suggestions' forum. I'd like to keep this thread on topic.

EDIT: A few discrete gentlemanly coughs have been inserted in the appropriate places in posts #29 and #31.

[/admin]

Getting back on topic...


IMHO, the AGA's presentation in this thread is a bit too hopey-changey. I'd like to see some leadership. Sure, you need to know what the membership wants, but I think that they have offered enough suggestions so that action is possible.

I suggest:
1) Pick one thing that you think needs to be done.
2) Announce that you are going to do it.
3) Make sure that it is clearly defined so that there is no uncertainty about when it is complete. ( Think Karl Popper here )
4) Do it.
5) Tell the members that you have done it.

I think that this would help build the members' confidence tremendously.


BTW, the particular thing that you choose does not have to be the members' number one priority, nor does it have to be anything big. You just need public evidence of concrete progress. Once we see that, we'll cut you a lot of slack on the details.

I'd like to see the AGA President take on a more Dictatorial role. At the moment the president and board spend their time listening to people, and starting to do things, then changing their mind after somebody tells them they're wrong. Well lets face it, this isn't going to solve anything at all. I think the President should start ignoring everyone and just do whatever suits him. That's what the community wants and its what the community deserves.

I'm out of town on my phone, so no long responses right now. But I am still reading. Java, that would require a rewrite of the bylaws. Joaz, don't worry, I'll form my own agenda. I'd like it to be based in reality as much as possible, though.

Javaness2 wrote:I'd like to see the AGA President take on a more Dictatorial role.

Depending on the leader, this can be super good or it can be a complete disaster. This is now common sense, from human history.

Javaness2 wrote:That's what the community wants and its what the community deserves.

Not exactly.

Javaness2 wrote:I'd like to see the AGA President take on a more Dictatorial role.

EdLee wrote:Depending on the leader, this can be super good or it can be a complete disaster...

True. But 90% of that range of outcomes would be better than the uncertainties and ambiguities that we have now. And we can always vote for a new leader if the worst 10% does occur.

Dictators can be indecisive and decisive people don't have to be dictatorial.

Joaz Banbeck wrote:Getting back on topic...
IMHO, the AGA's presentation in this thread is a bit too hopey-changey. I'd like to see some leadership. Sure, you need to know what the membership wants, but I think that they have offered enough suggestions so that action is possible.

I suggest:
1) Pick one thing that you think needs to be done.
2) Announce that you are going to do it.
3) Make sure that it is clearly defined so that there is no uncertainty about when it is complete. ( Think Karl Popper here )
4) Do it.
5) Tell the members that you have done it.

I think that this would help build the members' confidence tremendously.


BTW, the particular thing that you choose does not have to be the members' number one priority, nor does it have to be anything big. You just need public evidence of concrete progress. Once we see that, we'll cut you a lot of slack on the details.

Yes, and Yes. You cannot solve all problems at once, progress is made in little steps. Success breeds success. So create a successful little step, and start building momentum, by completing 1 action quickly and moving on to the next action item.

A couple of things to remember while selecting the Action items:
1) Avoid NIH (Not Invented Here) but support external initiatives that meet a need and try to integrate them into your references pages and request features that will help our members. Here are established volunteers that you don't have to recruit, manage, etc. Don't ignore them, or duplicate their effort, or marginalize them in any way. They have already proven systems. Some that come to mind, forums (integrate with Lifein19x19, it looks like that is happening nicely so don't divert it with a sure to fail AGA initiative) and player location service (IgoLocal), Go servers (KGS can set up private AGA only room if you want, and many others like DGS, IGS and OGS.) Leverage, leverage, leverage, drop the ego desire to invent your own.

2) Look for what the AGA can uniquely bring to the Go Playing community. What is missing, where are the gaps, how can the AGA serve as an integrating agent for all the external initiatives that help the membership. This is the sweet spot for the AGA. Trying to own the all the Go action in the US is one reason the AGA has failed so miserably in getting anything done, trying to do everything you end up doing nothing. Learn from playing the game we are supporting, Go is a game of market share, so act like you are trying to share the market and find out what part you can handle.

3) Listen more than you talk. There are about 2 orders of magnitude between the leadership and the membership, so for any problem it is more likely you will find the answer in a member than a leader. What is unique for the leader is being in a position to integrate all that comes from the membership.

so lets get back to the topic...

mdobbins wrote:...support external initiatives that meet a need and try to integrate them... Don't ignore them, or duplicate their effort, or marginalize them in any way. They have already proven systems. Some that come to mind... Lifein19x19...IgoLocal...KGS... Leverage, leverage, leverage, drop the ego desire to invent your own...

This is great advice. I'm repeating it just so it doesn't get overlooked. As always, L19 admins will be happy to set up AGA sub-forums, and I suspect that WMS would not object to an AGA room on KGS.

mdobbins wrote:
1) Avoid NIH (Not Invented Here)

normally I'd agree with this, however, what has bitten us in the past is using proprietary software/services that disappear or become unmaintainable when the owner stops support.

if it can be open sourced, or if the owner is willing to hand over control, then it's more likely to be useful and maintained for a much longer time period

xed_over wrote:

mdobbins wrote:
1) Avoid NIH (Not Invented Here)

normally I'd agree with this, however, what has bitten us in the past is using proprietary software/services that disappear or become unmaintainable when the owner stops support.

if it can be open sourced, or if the owner is willing to hand over control, then it's more likely to be useful and maintained for a much longer time period

Please enlighten me with success stories of the AGA being successful reinventing something already successful.

I feel your pain on the few failures using proprietary software/services, but even those lasted a few years. There have been other open source initiatives that have been ignore as well. Proprietary software/services seem to be the only horses that can get out of the gate, so ride those while you can. I would love to be proven wrong some day.

Amid all the criticisms of the AGA, let us note the successes.

Working with L19 is one of the aforementioned goals, and let us observe that Daniel the Smith, an AGA officer, is doing it.

mdobbins wrote:Please enlighten me with success stories of the AGA being successful reinventing something already successful.

I feel your pain on the few failures using proprietary software/services, but even those lasted a few years. There have been other open source initiatives that have been ignore as well. Proprietary software/services seem to be the only horses that can get out of the gate, so ride those while you can. I would love to be proven wrong some day.

https://github.com/usgo/

This houses the source code for the current ratings system, eidogo, a go league system/tournament crosstabs, the upcoming theme for the new website(not public) and last years congress site that could be redeployed very easily