Life In 19x19

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[go]$$Wc illuck vs. Celebrir
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , a . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The left side reminds me of the earlier problems in "Get strong at attacking", where there is a two-move solution, see problem xxx for the continuation

Exchanging for looks like a good way to attack, and then we're at another typical middle-game problem situation, with 'a' and 'b' being the interesting spots. I'd probably play 'a'.

Of course, the recent moves at the top change the situation quite a bit, black now has supporting stones in the area.

Not entirely sure, but feels like a jump instead of this contact is better for white since my two top stones are not really easy to attack even after white becomes stronger in the area. I also considered N17 here, but thought being connected is not worth getting haned (?) at the head of two on both sides and leaving a weaker corner.

Following the plan.

Hey, finally I got you to play on the 4th line

Hehe, but I guess I played on the fifth line a move before already. A lot of my games have just 3rd lines stones until like move 25-30.

I'm curious to see whether he plays his next move how I predicted.

5th line doesn't matter but you'll see later how often I expected you to play on the 4th line. I even got scolded by Uberdude for not paying attention to your previous moves

There are a lot of points on the board that seem roughly miai. So I'll play a probe to see if I can find a more clear way to proceed.

You forgot to go to the 2x moves in your dia

I have to admit that this looks like a good move... Let's look at some options:

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[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 4 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 . 2 3 O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | . X O , . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . 5 1 . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

With at its place this looks quite bad... I don't think this is an option.

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[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 5 . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | 7 X O 4 . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . 1 2 a . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think this is okay for both. If I get 'a' later he looks fairly overconcentrated

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[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a b . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I generally don't like 'a' and 'b' is only good if I get a good attack at B. However, is in a good position to destroy all attempts to attack.

Of course this is a probe. So he doesn't have to play the full variations now.

Celebrir wrote:I have to admit that this looks like a good move... Let's look at some options:

$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 4 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 . 2 3 O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | . X O , . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . 5 1 . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

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[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 4 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 . 2 3 O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | . X O , . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . 5 1 . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

With at its place this looks quite bad... I don't think this is an option.

I'm not stronger than the players, but:

I think this result would be quite good for white... White gets thickness in sente, and is now free to attack the black stone.

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[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O O . . O . B . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | . X O , . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . B . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

That looks like a good attack. Who knows, perhaps this could even end up as a splitting attack against the stones at the top?

flOvermind, I agree with you (and therefore disagree with Celebrir) that that diagram is good for white. However, black shouldn't live with a tripod group straight away, but reinforce his left side stone now that white answered the probe by stressing the outside. Then he can live in the corner later, or else white will reinforce and black gets an extra move elsewhere.

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[go]$$Bcm21 Better flow for black
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | . X O , . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

if you attack one stone they will not runaway and play as below.
see how white's thickness disappears and your group gets weaker?

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[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O O . . O . B . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | . X O , . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . B . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

therfore correct attack will be as below.
difference between above and below is BIG

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[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O O . . O . B . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | . X O , . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . B . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Looks better for me than expected. I would have played more lightly but I guess he doesn't want to be cut. Nut sure what is better here. Let's see what is possible for me now:

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[go]$$Bcm21 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . a . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I guess the moves from a-d have to be thought about. Let's take a closer look.

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[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b c . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is a slow move. It would be good for me if he answers at 'a' but I fear he would answer at 'b' or 'c' (I would prefer 'b' but somehow I feel like he would play 'c' )

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . 2 . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . a . . B . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't think he would play at 'a' because the possibility to damage is to big. Maybe he would exchange 'b' for 'a' but I don't think that would be very bad for me. However, the move at seems very good for him.

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[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . 1 . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

What if I take in Dia. 3 ? seems to be natural bacause he can't escape at 'a' and maybe can work together with later. Of course he can try to cut this stones but I'm optimistic that I'm able to attack his group if he tries this.

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[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . X . . 7 6 X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . W . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . 4 2 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . a . . B . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think 'd' from Dia.1 can become an problem for very easily and I don't want to give him such a free attack.

I think I must jump out here. Not only does it strengthen my group, but also weakens white's. C8 would be very nice to get, but I'm not holding my breath for sente here. The top seems too urgent.

Following the plan.

Maybe I'll take this one first :p The issue is that it leaves a cap on the top, which will be painful. But I don't see a sente move that removes the cap possibility on the top, so I'll take this and force white to solidify the bottom for me in defending the corner. But I guess if it's just a move like D3 or D2 then I'll go back on top.