Life In 19x19

illluck wrote:I think jts is expanding on your metaphor with family and friends. The fact that you don't agree suggests that the metaphor is not an apt one.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. You will note that I didn't disagree with the part where he extended the metaphor actually. That part seemed quite well put and sensible. That's why I only quoted the part I disagreed with, the part that tried to put words into my mouth, wholly inaccurately.

Ah, sorry then. I've had a terrible time with reading on and off the board today

jts wrote:
IANAL, btw.

Oh do you?

PeterHB wrote:

jts wrote:- that if you flatter the Nihon Kiin that their actions are always noble and just, perhaps they will remember your obeisance if they ever again feel the need to promote Go elsewhere in the world -

Just for clarity, the above statement by jts does not represent my view. Nearly the opposite represents my view. Shows the danger of believing you are summarizing someone's view. Considering I have been quite the opposite of silent on my views, it might be easier to let people read them and form their own opinion of my views.

I apologize if I misread your views. You said that the Kiin was trying to spread go not just in Seattle, not just in the US, but in the whole world, and that resisting their decision about Seattle would make them (I assume you mean, the Nihon Kiin) think about who their "real friends" are. I assumed that that implies the converse, as well - don't resist their decisions, no questions raised about friendship.

The sign says funded by, not donated by.

From what i have read so far i think the SGC should be ashamed of themselves. The Nihon ki-in provided what they could for as long as they felt that they could. Instead of being met with gratitude for what they had given in the past, it appears that they are now being hit with an irrational argument of self entitlement?

Kaoru Iwamoto i would think, would be proud that he was able to contribute to the growth of the game abroad while it was able to happen. However when the money runs dry, i do not think this means that his vision has failed. Nor do i think the SGC has any reason to complain. If someone lent me money, i wouldnt be suprised or angry when they want it returned and i certainly wouldnt feel entitled to it and try to sue them for leaving me with what i had to begin with.

The project has come to an end and perhaps the strategy could have been better for everyone if played differently. But this is the way it has to turned out, and like in our own games we have to accept the outcome.

balistic wrote:From what i have read so far i think the SGC should be ashamed of themselves.
The Nihon ki-in provided what they could for as long as they felt that they could.
Instead of being met with gratitude for what they had given in the past

My feelings exactly.

EVEN IF the SGC has legal grounds to sue, this is ridiculous.

Iwamoto Sensei and the Nihon Kiin supported Go in NY and Seattle (and other parts of the world)
for so many years. Now, everybody knows Go in Japan is on the decline and the Nihon Kiin is not
what it used to be. Instead of supporting and be thankful to the Nihon Kiin, the SGC is suing.
This is ridiculous.

The Chinese understand this. The Chinese Go Association is doing whatever they can
to support and help the Nihon Kiin, because they understand how people like Fujisawa Shuko Sensei
helped re-build Go in China in the 1980's.

EdLee wrote:

balistic wrote:From what i have read so far i think the SGC should be ashamed of themselves.
The Nihon ki-in provided what they could for as long as they felt that they could.
Instead of being met with gratitude for what they had given in the past

My feelings exactly.

EVEN IF the SGC has legal grounds to sue, this is ridiculous.

Iwamoto Sensei, and the Nihon Kiin supported Go in NY and Seattle (and other parts of the world)
for so many years. Now, everybody knows Go in Japan is on the decline and the Nihon Kiin is not
what it used to be. Instead of supporting and be thankful to the Nihon Kiin, the SGC is suing.
This is ridiculous.

The Chinese understand this. The Chinese Go Association is doing whatever they can
to support and help the Nihon Kiin, because they understand how people like Fujisawa Shuko Sensei
helped re-build Go in China in the 1980's.

Ed we're not talking about a service which survived on the Nihon Kiin's dime. As was stated earlier in the thread, we're talking about a service which was self-sufficient, and is now being sold out from under them. AND the reason being given, is to divert money to another venture, one which was less successful, and ultimately closed.

Honestly, the ones that the SGC owes for its continued existence are the SGC themselves. I support the SGC's position here entirely, and I don't believe that we owe so much to the Nihon Kiin that we should dismantle our infrastructure just to please a whim.

When I was at the Seattle Go Center, on one day there were about a dozen, on another day two players.

RobertJasiek wrote:When I was at the Seattle Go Center, on one day there were about a dozen, on another day two players.

Anecdotal evidence here... I'm operating from the previous statements that the center was self-sufficient, if that is NOT the case, I would be more than willing to adjust my position.

If the center IS self-sufficient, then seeing 12 people one day, and 2 people another is immaterial.

shapenaji wrote:If the center IS self-sufficient, then seeing 12 people one day, and 2 people another is immaterial.

The center has been self-sufficient as long as a tenant has been in place. There have been periods when that has not been the case, but over the long haul the SGC has done well.

shapenaji wrote:...we're talking about a service which was self-sufficient, and is now being sold out from under them...

Shapenaji, like others here, I know nothing about the legal details other than what was posted here in this thread.

So, who owns the SGC building? Does anyone know? This question has been asked a few times now in this thread,
and so far I don't see a definitive answer.

Whether or not the SGC is self-sufficient seems immaterial to me -- what's the relevance?

Again, my gut feeling for the SGC's honte reply in this case is "Thank you."
This lawsuit is extremely bad shape to me.

EdLee wrote:Again, my gut feeling for the SGC's honte reply in this case is "Thank you."
This lawsuit is extremely bad shape to me.

So you say you don't know the details, but you've made a decision already. I think you should be patient and do more reading before playing a move.

oren wrote:So you say you don't know the details, but you've made a decision already. I think you should be patient and do more reading before playing a move.

Yes, oren, it is my gut feeling, subject to change with the details.
So, do you know who owns the SGC building? I'd like to read your reply.

EdLee wrote:Shapenaji, like others here, I know nothing about the legal details other than what was posted here in this thread.

So, who owns the SGC building? Does anyone know? This question has been asked a few times now in this thread,
and so far I don't see a definitive answer.

Whether or not the SGC is self-sufficient seems immaterial to me -- what's the relevance?

Again, my gut feeling for the SGC's honte reply in this case is "Thank you."
This lawsuit is extremely bad shape to me.

I also don't know the answer to this, and this may be bad shape. But my gut feeling is that if the SGC had any recourse prior to the legal one, they would probably be using it.

I don't like the idea of a lawsuit here. If the SGC jumped to this conclusion without exhausting an appeals process, then I think it was hasty. But if the SGC closes, then I start wondering "What do we still owe to the Nihon Kiin?"

The reason why we owe them is for their contributions in creating a go scene in this country, if they are willing to take back those contributions, I don't see any reason why "Thanks" are in order.

shapenaji wrote:...if they are willing to take back those contributions...

Could you elaborate?