hyperpape wrote:Quite pleased to see Yuan Zhou win against Japan.
Yes. It would be interesting to see that game. Is that the first big upset in this tournament?
Re: World Amateur Go Championship 2012
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:40 am
by HKA
The Japan US game is up on the AGA homepage with pro commentary.
Re: World Amateur Go Championship 2012
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:22 pm
by dankenzon
I don't think the victory of the US representative against Japan one is the biggest upset.
For those who knows the background of the USA player he is able of that, and also seeing that the japanese get in troubles just in the two previous rounds: with Thailand (where he put himself in some not good shapes) and against South Korea (the korean guy put him behind from the very beginning), the possibility of beating Japan was clear.
In the paper, the biggest upset is the victory of the Chile player against Brasil. Check it out
Re: World Amateur Go Championship 2012
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:19 pm
by NeoNemesis
To me, Japan's loss to the US was definitely the biggest upset. Japan had that game won for sure and he was leading through the whole game, even though US played well. As much as I'd like the US to do well as an American myself, something just doesn't feel right to me about a game so close to the end, so far in points and yet, the obvious winner lost on time.
I have been to a tournament before a long time ago where the game was very close but the clock was running low for my opponent and he started having 1 hand on the clock and 1 playing moves very quickly so he doesn't run out of time. I knew I'd feel dirty if I won on time or due to my opponent rushing the endgame so I just told him to not worry about time and just play it out normally. Iirc, I lost by a little but at least I felt proud of my loss instead of dirty for my victory. Call me naive, but it's a shame to me as an American that our representative did not feel the same way, although it is not to be expected. At the very least, I would have somehow warned my opponent about the time.
Re: World Amateur Go Championship 2012
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:40 pm
by jts
HKA wrote:The Japan US game is up on the AGA homepage with pro commentary.
NeoNemesis wrote:I have been to a tournament before a long time ago where the game was very close but the clock was running low for my opponent and he started having 1 hand on the clock and 1 playing moves very quickly so he doesn't run out of time.
If my opponent is breaking the rules, I don't really mind if he loses. That said, the overtime wasn't exactly dangerous, 30 seconds 3 times. If Japan lost, I have to say, just judging from the end position, it's his own fault. There is little left to care about on the board?
Re: World Amateur Go Championship 2012
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 3:38 pm
by NeoNemesis
Javaness2 wrote:
NeoNemesis wrote:I have been to a tournament before a long time ago where the game was very close but the clock was running low for my opponent and he started having 1 hand on the clock and 1 playing moves very quickly so he doesn't run out of time.
If my opponent is breaking the rules, I don't really mind if he loses. That said, the overtime wasn't exactly dangerous, 30 seconds 3 times. If Japan lost, I have to say, just judging from the end position, it's his own fault. There is little left to care about on the board?
It's a good point, but since the game is almost over, why not just finish it. The Japanese guy is an older gentleman. He may be less familiar or forgetful when it comes to clocks. I don't think he was deliberately breaking the rules. My opponents in real life tournaments often forget to press their clocks. Sometimes even I do. Of course, I wasn't there, so it's hard to say what actually happened in regards to time. What's unquestionable is what is on the board. I think anyone with a basic knowledge of go can win that game in the Japanese player's position.
I don't know and it's completely the American's right to take the victory. I just believe it's good sportsmanship to finish a game that's almost done.
Re: World Amateur Go Championship 2012
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 5:00 pm
by Uberdude
NeoNemesis wrote: it's completely the American's right to take the victory.
He may not have been the one to make this decision, it's just following rules. Maybe this was one of the top games with a referee/recorder so when Nakazono lost on time Zhou didn't even have to claim the win on time, but someone else declared him the winner. Or maybe he did warn him, or maybe he didn't because to tell a Japanese amateur champion how to use a clock would be disrespectful, of course he knows!
There was a British tournament a few years ago where someone lost on time, but his opponent wanted to carry on. The guy who lost on time then won on the board and that was recorded as the result (and he won the tournament later). It caused quite a kerfuffle.
If Zhou turns round and says "No, I refuse to take the time win!", he may upset other people affected by the result, SOS etc, as well as not following the rules of the tournament.
NeoNemesis wrote:I just believe it's good sportsmanship to finish a game that's almost done.
Seems to me Zhou wanted to finish the game (otherwise he could have resigned if he was clearly behind), but his opponent prevented this from happening by playing too slowly!
Basically, if your opponent fails to play his move in his time then we can feel sorry for him, but to question the sportsmanship of the winner (unless he's doing obvious nonsense invading secure territory etc.) is unfair.
P.S. I lose tournament games on time more than most people.
Re: World Amateur Go Championship 2012
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 5:24 pm
by NeoNemesis
According to http://ranka.intergofed.org/, it seems like a slight clock malfunction which confused both players until the clock ran out of time. My apologies to the American representative. I wonder how often this happens in the WAGC. They should use better clocks if this happens too often.
Re: World Amateur Go Championship 2012
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 5:44 pm
by Uberdude
Ouch, that's unfortunate.
Just looked at China Macau game, it's hard to believe black neglected to f16 in sente before living at b16, that shape is basically a joseki (when b has ladder which he has, and I don't see something like j9 being a good enough ladder breaker).
Re: World Amateur Go Championship 2012
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 5:47 pm
by speedchase
NeoNemesis wrote:According to http://ranka.intergofed.org/, it seems like a slight clock malfunction which confused both players until the clock ran out of time. My apologies to the American representative. I wonder how often this happens in the WAGC. They should use better clocks if this happens too often.
The officials decided that there was no clock malfunction, but rather that he just ran out of time.
Re: World Amateur Go Championship 2012
Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 12:55 am
by Laman
i've heard (from report by Lukáš Podpěra) that after the confusion Nakazono actually pushed his clock few seconds before the end of the period, but the clock wouldn't respond and announced the time loss. i can't tell what had really happened, just wanted to share another version of the events
i am only familiar with the ing clock, but for them it is truth that i occasionaly have to push them twice in order for them to take a notice. luckily never happened in such a time trouble to cause me to lose. it shows an advantage of DGT style clock over the clock with buttons. once you push them, it is obvious
either way, the moral of the story is that you should never resign and sometimes it earns you a win regardless of the situation on the board
