Life In 19x19

The asian professional scene is a system of invitational tournaments. Only professionals get invited, and that is what defines them. Professionals get paid for playing in those tournaments. The professional organizations are guilds who appoint their new professional members.

The basis for this system is millions of amateur members and a number of well-paying sponsors (who, in turn, are of course attracted by the millions of interested people).

Of course, it does not have to work that way, but being professional means to make a living from Go. Any proposal for a professional system needs first and foremost to address the question how to pay a dependable salary to a noticeable number of players so that they can live from that.

wessanenoctupus wrote:These "strong players" while strong are not near pro level. Well near is a relative term, in this case 2 or 3 stones. For example, Andy, while very strong and can beat many pros who dont compete anymore, would still likely take at least black from an active pro. When Andy goes to the Korean go clubs in New York, the strongest players refuse to play for money unless they are taking at least a no komi handicap. From this we can deduce that they are at least 2 stones away from a pro.

If the stories I've heard are true, there's at least one guy here in the Chicago area who would play Andy or anyone else for money.

tj86430 wrote:

HKA wrote:The AGA has around 2000 members

Is this true? I find the figure incredibly low (for comparison, USA has roughly 55 times people compared to Finland. With that ratio Finnish Go Federation should have approx 36 members, while in reality I believe that we have 5-10 times that)

I thought everybody in Finland played Go?

Cho Namchul founded the Korean Baduk Association in 1954, yet, he still recommended Cho Chikun go to Japan to study go in 1962 (at Kitani's school).

Why?

My opinion, it takes time to build the infrastructure. I don't think North America is there yet.

POGO wrote:Now this has probably been disscussed before.
but what would it take to get a pro system in north america?

I think it would take at least one brick and mortar go school committed to providing an insei style environment for talented kids *year round* to foster then next generation. (the AGA summer camp is a great program, but it only runs a fraction of the year.)

rubin427 wrote:I think it would take at least one brick and mortar go school committed to providing an insei style environment for talented kids *year round* to foster then next generation. (the AGA summer camp is a great program, but it only runs a fraction of the year.)

Does this count in your opinion?

http://www.fengyungoschool.com/

Lots of strong players have come out of there.

gowan has an excellent point about soccer. Soccer is the most popular sport in the world and it still failed in North America. It seems people just don't have much control over what becomes popular and what doesn't, and of course Go would need to become quite popular to sustain a pro association.

palapiku wrote:gowan has an excellent point about soccer. Soccer is the most popular sport in the world and it still failed in North America. It seems people just don't have much control over what becomes popular and what doesn't, and of course Go would need to become quite popular to sustain a pro association.

What does failure here mean? The MLS does provide a place for many professional US soccer players. Of course it's not the top class of the world, but that's because the US has many other sports that are more popular. I wouldn't call US soccer a failure.

oren wrote:

rubin427 wrote:...at least one brick and mortar go school ...

Does this count in your opinion?

Thank you Oren. I was not aware of feng yun's Go school. It certainly looks like an excellent program.

oren wrote:

palapiku wrote:gowan has an excellent point about soccer. Soccer is the most popular sport in the world and it still failed in North America. It seems people just don't have much control over what becomes popular and what doesn't, and of course Go would need to become quite popular to sustain a pro association.

What does failure here mean? The MLS does provide a place for many professional US soccer players. Of course it's not the top class of the world, but that's because the US has many other sports that are more popular. I wouldn't call US soccer a failure.

Agreed. Soccer is succeeding in the U.S., and MLS is part of the reason.

However, despite ambitious expansion, MLS is having some difficulty, attendance is down. There is a reason for this that is very relevant to our discussion.

Americans are used to the best. So while interest in soccer has increased, many fans have quickly realized that the European leagues are the best in the World (Go Toffees!) and so Americans become European fans.

Similarly, even though our top amatuers have their fans, and might have a few more if we called them "pros", we would still know that China/Korea/Japan is where it is at and sophisticated sponsors, if we could get some, would figure that out quickly.

daniel_the_smith wrote:

wessanenoctupus wrote:These "strong players" while strong are not near pro level. Well near is a relative term, in this case 2 or 3 stones. For example, Andy, while very strong and can beat many pros who dont compete anymore, would still likely take at least black from an active pro. When Andy goes to the Korean go clubs in New York, the strongest players refuse to play for money unless they are taking at least a no komi handicap. From this we can deduce that they are at least 2 stones away from a pro.

If the stories I've heard are true, there's at least one guy here in the Chicago area who would play Andy or anyone else for money.

can you tell me the name?? i am wondering if it's the same guy i know.

wessanenoctupus wrote: For example, Andy, while very strong and can beat many pros who dont compete anymore, would still likely take at least black from an active pro. When Andy goes to the Korean go clubs in New York, the strongest players refuse to play for money unless they are taking at least a no komi handicap. From this we can deduce that they are at least 2 stones away from a pro.

I bet if we could get Andy (and any of our other strong amateurs) into a full time pro circuit, he'd jump up in strength in no time and be able to compete with them.

That's one thing we're lacking still, a strong "pro" player base for competition to help our strong players continue to improve.

Once every 5 years to the WAGC just ain't going to be enough.