[go]$$Wc Score - B: 28, W: 17 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . @ . . . . | $$ | . . m W . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . @ . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . . . . . . p | $$ | . X # X . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O m X . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O # . . X m . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
One thing that's really interesting about this game, is that the plus points are really 3 point gote moves if they are inside your own territory, so they aren't all that big. If Black takes the point at the top, he gets 5 points, but he also loses 2 as I get a point of territory and the prisoner, and does so in gote. In which case, it seems much bigger to take all the big edge points, and the take the "p" points when 3 points gote is actually reasonably worth playing.
Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:55 pm
by MountainGo
This is tough, I'll have to think about it. I'll probably make my move tomorrow.
Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:54 pm
by Dusk Eagle
I was really looking forward to this move:
$$Wc Score - B: 20, W: 13 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . . . . . . p | $$ | . X X W . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O m X . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O X . . X m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+
[go]$$Wc Score - B: 20, W: 13 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . . . . . . p | $$ | . X X W . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O m X . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O X . . X m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
I considered it, but after he cuts on the minus point. I'm dead without him having to play the other one I think. If true, that's a good 20 points to make up for the 5 he lost, and I decided I couldn't afford to be right
Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:06 pm
by prokofiev
An interesting comparison:
If black were to effect this, it would be worth say 14 points in gote for black, minus the value of white's somewhat improved outward thickness: (not saying this is a position that would ever happen... just placing down a small "successful invasion")
$$Bc Score - B: 28, W: 17 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . W B B . | $$ | . . . . . . @ W B . B | $$ | . . m O . . . W m B B | $$ | . . . . . . . . @ W W | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . . . . . . p | $$ | . X # X . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O m X . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O # . . X m . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+
[go]$$Bc Score - B: 28, W: 17 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . W B B . | $$ | . . . . . . @ W B . B | $$ | . . m O . . . W m B B | $$ | . . . . . . . . @ W W | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . . . . . . p | $$ | . X # X . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O m X . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O # . . X m . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
Getting White to play the minus point in his own territory in sente somehow is worth 5 points in sente for black, which is only 2 points less than 14/2 = 7, and then add as well the value of any aji black creates this way.
A possible approach to this:
$$Bc Score - B: 28, W: 17 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . @ . 2 . . | $$ | . . m O . . . 1 4 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . @ . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . . . . . . p | $$ | . X # X . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O m X . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O # . . X m . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+
[go]$$Bc Score - B: 28, W: 17 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . @ . 2 . . | $$ | . . m O . . 5 1 m 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . 4 @ . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . . . . . . p | $$ | . X # X . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O m X . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O # . . X m . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:43 pm
by freegame
wow, this looks like sooo much fun
I also want to give this a try. If anyone is interested in a simmilar game let me know. I don't mind the rank I just want to try this out and have some fun.
good luck topazg & MountainGo
Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:33 pm
by Phelan
freegame wrote:wow, this looks like sooo much fun
I also want to give this a try. If anyone is interested in a simmilar game let me know. I don't mind the rank I just want to try this out and have some fun.
[go]$$Wc Score - B: 29, W: 17 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . @ . . . . | $$ | . . m O . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . @ . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . . . . . . p | $$ | . X # X . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O m X . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O # . . X m . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
I am playing my hidden stone. I'll send Phelan the location.
The pros seem to like to use the hidden stone in the late middle game or endgame, but I'd just like to see how using it a bit earlier might work out. I like the idea of making him worry early on and constantly question his moves until he finds my stone.
Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo
Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:48 am
by topazg
$$Wc Score - B: 29, W: 18 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . @ . . . . | $$ | . . m O . . . . m . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . @ . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . . . . . . p | $$ | . X # X . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O m X . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O # . . X m . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+
[go]$$Wc Score - B: 30, W: 18 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . @ . . . . | $$ | . . m O . . . . m . . | $$ | . . O . . . B . @ . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . . . . . . p | $$ | . X # X . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O m X . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O # . . X m . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
I've been going back and forth and all around between lots of moves in this area, being very indecisive. I don't know if this is the best move, but I don't want to spend any more time thinking about it. There are basically two aims of this move: (1) to freak him out about where my hidden stone might be, hopefully getting him to scan an empty point (although this probably won't happen since the elephant's eye is both where it looks like my stone might be and where he would like to play himself, so he'll just play there instead of scanning) and (2) to get in a sente reduction before I kill his lower right stone in gote. The downside to this move is that it looks like textbook aji keshi, a thank-you move that asks him to fix his elephant's jump.
I also considered trying to get in some kind of sente move against his lower left, again with the idea of freaking him out while he doesn't know where my hidden stone is, but the carpenter's square is really complicated, and I couldn't convince myself that I wasn't going to end in gote or suffer a loss if he responded correctly.
p.s. Don't read Phelan's hidden message! It contains the ultimate truth of the universe, too much for any human to survive!
Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo
Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:37 pm
by Phelan
$$Wc Score - B: 30, W: 16 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . @ . . . . | $$ | . . m O . . . . m . . | $$ | . . O . . . B . @ . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . . . . . . p | $$ | . X # X . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O m X . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O # . . X m . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+
Don't look in here!