Life In 19x19

Joaz Banbeck wrote:[admin]

badukJr wrote:...
If moderators have the power to delete their own threads to deflect criticism, then ordinary posters should be able to delete their own threads as well...

Kirby wrote:I'm also against locking posts, but I didn't realize that ordinary users couldn't delete their own posts...

I was surprised when I found out that you couldn't delete your own posts. It seemed proper that anybody should be able to. I expected that I would just have to toggle a flag someplace to change it. I checked on it, and it appears that phpbb has no provision for it. This, of course means that you can't delete a thread either.

Until somebody writes some custom code, it doesn't look like it will change. Pleas to Kirby or Fwiffo or Adrian or any of the other admins who write php might be the best way.

[/admin]

You can already delete your own posts if they're the last in the thread.
However, you can't if there's been other posts. Since deleting posts in the middle of thread can break it completely, I'd very much be against adding that as a feature.
Also, a user can always edit and blank his post and have almost the same effect, without making it seem that some people might be talking to themselves.

I was going to write something longer but thanks Tchan if you're reading this, in particular for documenting all those Asian Go books. I've bought a number of excellent problem sets from China and Japan because of the information you've provided. I hope you open your blog up again sometime.

tchan001 wrote:I think I'll just do a JF and stay away from the community for a long while and turn my blog private

LOL.

When I first read this post, I didn't think tchan was being serious. My first thoughts were that he's got a very dry wit and was taking a slight dig at Mr Fairbairn's behaviour.

But if he is serious, why announce it at all? Is it some sort of punishment to the Go community at large?

Wow, such egos -- "Oh no, someone stepped on my toes. I'll just quit posting, or going to Go Congresses. That'll show everyone!"

Get over yourselves.

Yes, you'll be missed by some, maybe even by most, but certainly not by all. And guess what, the world lives on. Eventually, someone else steps up to the plate.

The next time we have Admin elections, maybe we need to elect someone who doesn't get offended so easily and runs away anytime there's trouble.

Yes, being an admin is a hard job, and is often under appreciated. But I suspect the community at large still very much appreciates the job our elected admins do, even if they don't say it -- else we wouldn't have elected them (because we know we need them).

Will they make mistakes and step over the line? Of course they will (and its often a fuzzy line at best). We, the community at large, need to get over ourselves too.


PS. This post is not intended as a personal attack on any one person here, but rather its intended as a general observation toward an apparent widespread attitude by using a few specific examples. I still appreciate and respect each person highlighted in these specific examples (except for this one particular apparent character flaw )

A small point: I have written a few things I should not have, and I think the best response, if you can't delete them before anyone else sees them or posts a reply, is to edit out the content of the post and write something like

"I wrote something [stupid|nasty|stupid and nasty] because I was angry, but having thought about it, I don't agree with what I wrote, and am sorry."

In my opinion, doing that is far better than deleting, but also avoids having every new visitor to the thread read whatever insult I dashed out in a fit of anger.

In some cases it might be even better to say "if you read what I originally wrote, and feel the need to call me a jackass, I will try to understand, because I was being a jackass."

hyperpape wrote:A small point: I have written a few things I should not have, and I think the best response, if you can't delete them before anyone else sees them or posts a reply, is to edit out the content of the post and write something like

"I wrote something [stupid|nasty|stupid and nasty] because I was angry, but having thought about it, I don't agree with what I wrote, and am sorry."

In my opinion, doing that is far better than deleting, but also avoids having every new visitor to the thread read whatever insult I dashed out in a fit of anger.

In some cases it might be even better to say "if you read what I originally wrote, and feel the need to call me a jackass, I will try to understand, because I was being a jackass."

Another possibility is to think before posting. Admittedly, I'm a hypocrite if I don't prefix with saying that I am one of the guiltiest offenders on this front.

Of course. My post was only about damage control.

xed_over wrote:[...]Is it some sort of punishment to the Go community at large?

Wow, such egos[...]

Get over yourselves.

Yes, you'll be missed by some, maybe even by most, but certainly not by all. And guess what, the world lives on. Eventually, someone else steps up to the plate.

The next time we have Admin elections, maybe we need to elect someone who doesn't get offended so easily and runs away anytime there's trouble.

+1

That's right, get over yourselves and move the useless thread somewhere where it doesn't appear as one of the most active threads in L19.

@Sefo: You owe me a new irony detector.

Anyways, seems like this has indeed ran its course. I'd be ok with locking it.

xed_over wrote:

tchan001 wrote:I think I'll just do a JF and stay away from the community for a long while and turn my blog private

LOL.

When I first read this post, I didn't think tchan was being serious. My first thoughts were that he's got a very dry wit and was taking a slight dig at Mr Fairbairn's behaviour.

But if he is serious, why announce it at all? Is it some sort of punishment to the Go community at large?

Wow, such egos -- "Oh no, someone stepped on my toes. I'll just quit posting, or going to Go Congresses. That'll show everyone!"

Get over yourselves.

Yes, you'll be missed by some, maybe even by most, but certainly not by all. And guess what, the world lives on. Eventually, someone else steps up to the plate.

The next time we have Admin elections, maybe we need to elect someone who doesn't get offended so easily and runs away anytime there's trouble.

Yes, being an admin is a hard job, and is often under appreciated. But I suspect the community at large still very much appreciates the job our elected admins do, even if they don't say it -- else we wouldn't have elected them (because we know we need them).

Will they make mistakes and step over the line? Of course they will (and its often a fuzzy line at best). We, the community at large, need to get over ourselves too.


PS. This post is not intended as a personal attack on any one person here, but rather its intended as a general observation toward an apparent widespread attitude by using a few specific examples. I still appreciate and respect each person highlighted in these specific examples (except for this one particular apparent character flaw )

Are you serious? It's not that big a deal. He is just letting people know what he is doing. Their is no reason to be so rude about it .

Ps. Sefo I find it ironic thAt you are criticizing someone's behavior with a picture that says it is Pointless to criticize people's behavior on the internet

hyperpape wrote:[..] write something like

"I wrote something [stupid|nasty|stupid and nasty] because I was angry, but having thought about it, I don't agree with what I wrote, and am sorry."

[..]

I SOOOO agree with this. As a proposal, that is, as a desideratum, something we wish for.

BUT … I'd be happy if we could agree on that this is not always easy, it is a skill that’s not simply achieved by doing once; in my experience it seems to take a lifetime to master (reminds of something, eh?). And I’d wish that we could somehow … show friendly acceptance towards those of whom we think they play black, so to speak. Actually, I believe that this friendly acceptance oozes out of your comment

And I believe that harsh criticizm, blaming or even insults are counterproductive. Note that I don’t say they are “bad” or … not understandable, they are counterproductive, simple as that. Plus they negate the conscience conflicts and confusion I’m sure everybody older than, say, five years has experienced when one realizes that one has made a mistake which leads to shame/guilt/bewilderment/embarrassment/whathaveyou and then trying to do something to minimize the negative effects.

I believe we can only teach each other when we are able to understand the other’s mistakes and—if we show empathy.

…

Uhm, what was it that I wanted to say … nevermind. Neuralyzer*. Peace.

_____
* For meine Deutsch readers: Neuralizer = »Blitzdings«

I feel like it might disrupt the flow of the thread if the original message is changed after someone's responded to it. For example, if you are arguing that the grass is colored purple, and someone responds to it, if you go back and edit your post to change purple to green, it makes the argument seem incoherent.

If we wanted to implement something like this officially, I think it would be cool to have some sort of "retract this message" button. When you clicked on it, it would perhaps give some sort of default text that is the same for everybody. I might even think it'd be good to maintain the original message in hide tags or something so that it's still visible to someone that wants to follow the original discussion.

Kirby wrote:I feel like it might disrupt the flow of the thread if the original message is changed after someone's responded to it. For example, if you are arguing that the grass is colored purple, and someone responds to it, if you go back and edit your post to change purple to green, it makes the argument seem incoherent.

This is why quoting is important.
This way there is always a record to what exactly you responded to, regardless of any editing.

I think that's a strawman, Kirby. The point is not to erase points you made*, but to avoid having personal attacks persist on the boards.

* It proves nothing, but I'll still note that I'm so persnickety that
1) I write a description of what I am editing almost every time I edit a post of mine on these boards
2) One of the several things stalling me from creating a new personal website is that I can't decide on a proper way to handle URL schemes, permalinks and old versions of content.

hyperpape wrote:I think that's a strawman, Kirby. The point is not to erase points you made*, but to avoid having personal attacks persist on the boards.

* It proves nothing, but I'll still note that I'm so persnickety that
1) I write a description of what I am editing almost every time I edit a post of mine on these boards
2) One of the several things stalling me from creating a new personal website is that I can't decide on a proper way to handle URL schemes, permalinks and old versions of content.

I think by "strawman" you are referring to a strawman argument, but for that to be the case, I think I have to be arguing with you - and that's not my intention. Yes, I understand that the ability to edit posts could take away from personal attacks on boards (which shouldn't be there in the first place).

I am trying to note that this functionality, if made generally available, could lead to discontinuity of thought in threads.

My proposal contains two aspects that I prefer to the option of simply allowing free edits:
1.) A generic text blurb removes the personal attack, while still disallowing a user to add confusion to the middle of a thread.
2.) Allowing for the original text to remain still lets readers understand the original flow in content.

Regarding personal attacks, we have admins that could remove a post if it was too extreme.

Anyway, I'm still not trying to argue with you. This is just a possible feature I thought of.

Bantari wrote:

Kirby wrote:I feel like it might disrupt the flow of the thread if the original message is changed after someone's responded to it. For example, if you are arguing that the grass is colored purple, and someone responds to it, if you go back and edit your post to change purple to green, it makes the argument seem incoherent.

This is why quoting is important.
This way there is always a record to what exactly you responded to, regardless of any editing.

Agreed. Though, the system does not currently enforce it.