37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:53 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm24 Move 24 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Hmmm ... that IS a big point ... however, Black has at least two weaknesses.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm24 Black has an open skirt on both sides $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . b . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . a . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So, the question is ... do I play b right now? What are the options on the board that I am considering?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm24 Options $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . a . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I must admit, playing while keeping track of influence and territory is not my strongest skill. Let's look at these three moves.

A) Attack the bottom.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm24 Attack the bottom! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . y . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . 1 . x . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . z . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I can see three different responses. Of them all, I'm only really unsure about O3. All the others are fine by me. However, getting split like that becomes a complicated fight. There's the possible ko:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm24 Ko sequence $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . . 4 3 6 O . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . 1 5 2 7 . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I THINK I can deal with this. Black may steal the corner, though.

What about my other possible moves?

B) Attack the upper right.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm24 Attack the corner! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

There's a huge upside to this move ... his corner stays relatively small (and cramped), while I make good use of my stones on the right. The downside ... he next gets to attack my weak group up top. I'm still no convinced this is the right time for R13. Perhaps there will be no better time for it, but for now, I think I can gain more from other moves.

C) Solid Territory on the left.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm24 Move 24 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The big gote move. I give up sente to take a lot of points. How much? Well, my lower left would then be equal to his upper left (more or less).

Giving up sente is huge, though. Black can take over the game and take a number of big points. Best to play something that he'll at least have to consider responding to.

So, all in all, I choose to attack the bottom from the right, using M3. He still has a weak point on the left of that group, but that can be left as large endgame play.

Redundant · Post by **Redundant** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:34 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm25 Move 25 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . 1 . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This move is very annoying. It took a long time for me to realize that there was a reason why any of my attempts to keep my base where failing. I don't in fact have a strong claim to the area underneath my stones, because white always has this move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm25 Move 25 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . 2 . . 1 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

As such I'm going to strengthen my group by attaching. I really must find a way to 3-3 his corner, though. Otherwise his corner is huge. I thought of doing this immediately, but did not like giving him such a weak group to attack. I like none of my options here. So i'm going to go with this, as I don't feel like I can keep a base without giving up too much in thickness. I feel like this move is my first giant blunder. I'd love to see a better option.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:31 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm26 Move 26 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . X . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . O . 1 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Redundant · Post by **Redundant** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:48 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm27 Move 27 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . X . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . 1 O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:00 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm28 Move 28 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . X . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Redundant · Post by **Redundant** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:09 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm27 Move 27 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . X . . . O . 1 . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

ketchup · Post by **ketchup** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:46 pm

Kibitzers only until end of game.

Overall, I feel white does not know the proper worth of influence in this game. He is sometimes overly territorial. It seems he definitely prefers territory, but I don't think he can win this game if he keeps up his slow pace. He likes to try to settle fast, but in doing so, he almost always makes his opponent stronger.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm24 Move 24 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . W . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

On one more note, this marked white stone seems wrong to me. I'm not sure how he is aiming for a weakness here, and in the terms of trying to create territory like this using a 4-4 stone is simply awkward. I also feel that this area of the board is very unimportant. Black is no real rush to get in the area around o4 due to the high placement of his stones. This white stone is also a bit lacking because it is simply too close. If he was one more space back, I think it would be a decent move that would still aim for black's weakness or at least some sort of sente sequence.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:42 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm28 Move 28 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . X . . . O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Redundant · Post by **Redundant** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:12 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm29 Move 29 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . X . . . O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm29 Move 29 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . X . . . O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O 4 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If I recall correctly, this is the sequence I saw a 5d play out at go club last week. I'll have to read out 31 a bit to make sure I'm right, but I'm certain that 29 is the first move he showed. Also, it makes sense. White can't hane against 29, as even if I don't cut or clamp right away, it leaves a huge weakness.

Also, I'm glad he gave me the corner. He will get influence, and then when I survive with my bottom group, that influence will be of no use to him

. Unless he uses this to get a really good attack going, but I see no severe attack.

Aphelion · Post by **Aphelion** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:19 am

ketchup wrote:Kibitzers only until end of game.

Overall, I feel white does not know the proper worth of influence in this game. He is sometimes overly territorial. It seems he definitely prefers territory, but I don't think he can win this game if he keeps up his slow pace. He likes to try to settle fast, but in doing so, he almost always makes his opponent stronger.

$$Wcm24 Move 24 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . W . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm24 Move 24 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . W . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

On one more note, this marked white stone seems wrong to me. I'm not sure how he is aiming for a weakness here, and in the terms of trying to create territory like this using a 4-4 stone is simply awkward. I also feel that this area of the board is very unimportant. Black is no real rush to get in the area around o4 due to the high placement of his stones. This white stone is also a bit lacking because it is simply too close. If he was one more space back, I think it would be a decent move that would still aim for black's weakness or at least some sort of sente sequence.

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:25 am

Aphelion wrote:
That White approach seems pretty standard to me, it threatens to take away the Black base with either H3 or just the slide at L2. Any further back and it would lack severity.That said, I really feel that O3 needed to be at N4.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:07 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm30 Move 30 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . X . . . O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Redundant · Post by **Redundant** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:24 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Move 31 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . X . . . O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:18 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm32 Move 32 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . X . . 1 O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I want to give my opponent fewer cutting points, so I've decided to play the solid connection instead of the hane.

What will my opponent do next? I'm pretty sure he can leave the corner as it is and tenuki. Where do I think he'll go?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm32 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . X 2 . 1 O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Extending at N4 would be big ... but I have no need to respond. I don't think he'll play there.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm32 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . X . . 1 O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is much more likely. Black expands his upper right corner in a huge way. Maybe one other option, though ...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm32 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . X . . 1 O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black could play this side instead.

I'm betting on R12, though.

Redundant · Post by **Redundant** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:58 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm32 Move 33 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . . . X . X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Life In 19x19

37. Redundant (4k) vs. Marcus (4k)

Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)

Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)

Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)

Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)

Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)

Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)

Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)

Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)

Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)

Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)

Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)

Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)

Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)

Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)

Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)