#182 Nathan vs. lesenv

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lesenv
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Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv

Post by lesenv »

i want to have a secret message to me! :batman:
but while i don't receive a reply, i think i'm on the right path.
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jts
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Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv

Post by jts »

Top secret message for lesenv:

How are you feeling about the game? Do you think one of you is winning? What points have you considered other than "A"? What do you read out as happening after that?
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Magicwand
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Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv

Post by Magicwand »

Uberdude wrote:
Hoho, this should be fun. Black's hane was an overplay but so is this cut immediately: black s17 puts white in trouble.

actually... hane is overplay but...cut ....can be played.. it is complicated fight but white has advantage IMO.

this is what i expect..
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm10 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 X O O 4 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 5 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


below is an overplay for black.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm10 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X O O 4 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Magicwand
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Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv

Post by Magicwand »

below should be correct sequence for black.
white is better...but considering 4 stone white should not play such moves.
white should try to leave weakness on black.
although black lost points...black is still ahead and made game simpler than before.
not really bad thing for black having 4 stone.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm10 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O 1 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . 6 O O X X 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

or this
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm10 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O 1 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

lesenv,
:batman:
What were your expectation and plans when you played :b6: ?
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Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv

Post by lesenv »

ed:
when i played :b6:, i thought he takes the corner, i take the wall and eventually i protect at a
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm6 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 1 O O 4 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]


jts:
honestly i hope i don't play crap. we have two groups each and this favours the better player (my humble opponent). i'm not just slapping stones on the board, but i'm trying to read more than usually (i'm lucky to discover that white stones aren't connected).
it's too early to think about winning or losing, but i'm still confident i can win it.
i looked at the new created wall at :w13: and this will be played. i looked at b, but this looked too near to the white wall.
when somebody invades (at c or d, for example), i don't see how this could progress. when in fighting there are some moves more likely to be played than others (like forcing moves), when this is not yet in fighting, there are too many possibilities.
i think on the right side would be too near to my other stones, on the bottom side would be great. white stones would be great for white to approach the left-top corner, so i'm kind of playing the stone my opponent wants to play.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm12 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . c d . a b . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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EdLee
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Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv

Post by EdLee »

lesenv,
lesenv wrote:when i played :b6:, i thought he takes the corner, i take the wall and eventually i protect at a
After the game, you can read and enjoy some of the posts about :b6:.
Maybe later, when the game has moved well past a certain point, people will slowly unhide some of the hidden posts,
and you can read them before the game is over. :batman:
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Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv

Post by Nathan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm12 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok so i think I have to respond either q18 or p18 because if I ignore black splits me and I dont have any other direct attacks.

p18 was the first instinct, but then after black hanes white has to play conservatively, however with q18 black can take the corner, and the aji on the outside isnt too bad.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm12 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . 5 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O 3 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv

Post by lesenv »

the white stone at r14 is still disconnected, so i'll play an extension as planned.
originally i wanted to jump further, but i'm more comortable here.
i expect some split move on the left side.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm12 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re:

Post by tomukaze »

@Ed Lee

EdLee wrote:Pros can be full of surprises: Nov 30, 1989. Cho Chikun 9p vs. Otake Hideo 9p:
( EXACTLY the same number of stones and just as empty as in the current game )
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm10
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


Where can I get the sgf to that game, I am curious about their play.
我が道を行く。
I'll do it my way....
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oren
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Re: Re:

Post by oren »

tomukaze wrote:Where can I get the sgf to that game, I am curious about their play.


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Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv

Post by The Intrepid »

White lost, so C15 was an overplay! :D Just kidding, although I'm not sure I like the result White got in the top left corner. Black got the corner territory and the outside influence, to boot.
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.
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Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv

Post by illluck »

Jumped in too late, but here's a link to the discussion previously: viewtopic.php?p=101915. I think my post #2 still stands :p I am also still wondering about my question at post #18 and #20.
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

lesenv wrote:the white stone at r14 is still disconnected...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm12
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Strange. :scratch:
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Re:

Post by illluck »

EdLee wrote:
lesenv wrote:the white stone at r14 is still disconnected...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm12
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Strange. :scratch:



I would personally trade the hane block first, but think lesenv is right:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm12 3 tenuki
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O 5 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
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