Life In 19x19

SoDesuNe wrote:

Annihilist wrote:

Phelan wrote:It's actually a good anime.

Phelan wrote:a good anime.

I must be hearing things. What?

A GOOD ANIME!

I think it should be made clear that I don't like anime.

Like, at all.

Annihilist wrote:The fact that a large proportion of go players were introduced to the game from anime kind of puts me off the game. The association is not one I'm sure I like.

I find this a very strange comment. Would you care to elaborate?

Not only do you not like anime (which I could understand) but you don’t want to be in any way associated with people who do like anime. I’m not sure what you think anime is, but it’s really just a story being told using animation rather than real life actors. I for one can appreciate a good story regardless of what medium is used to deliver it. I’m curious as to what you see as being so offensive?

PS. I won’t take offense. You are free to form your own opinion and I’m not about to try to convince you otherwise.

Don't feed the trolls.

coderboy wrote:Don't feed the trolls.

Hardly a troll. I genuinely don't like anime.

Although, I was exaggerating when I said it put me off the game. I talk specifically about Japanese style anime as well. Generally, I don't like the culture that surrounds anime - similar to things like JRPGs, the angsty teens with scene haircuts and whatnot. You know what I'm on about. I know I may be generalising, but regardless, I do stay away from that kind of culture. I don't like the art style of anime either. So it's really just a taste thing, but I don't like it. My brother keeps telling me about animes he likes (Death Note and Soul Eater, for example). Sounds really lame to me.

I have no problem with people who do like it - let me make that perfectly clear. But the association between go and anime is not one I am fond of.

Annihilist wrote:

coderboy wrote:Don't feed the trolls.

Hardly a troll. I genuinely don't like anime.

Although, I was exaggerating when I said it put me off the game. I talk specifically about Japanese style anime as well. Generally, I don't like the culture that surrounds anime - similar to things like JRPGs, the angsty teens with scene haircuts and whatnot. You know what I'm on about. I know I may be generalising, but regardless, I do stay away from that kind of culture. I don't like the art style of anime either. So it's really just a taste thing, but I don't like it. My brother keeps telling me about animes he likes (Death Note and Soul Eater, for example). Sounds really lame to me.

I have no problem with people who do like it - let me make that perfectly clear. But the association between go and anime is not one I am fond of.

Thanks for sharing Annihilist.

Bantari also suggested that the anime actually put him off the game a little. I find this interesting since in my mind the link between Go and anime is so insignificant that the idea of it affecting your enjoyment of the game sounds impossible to me.

I enjoyed HNG (introduced me to Go) along with many other anime over the years. But for me, the culture that surrounds a thing doesn't usually affect my opinion of the thing itself. So I guess it's just a different way of looking at things.

LoneWolf wrote:

Annihilist wrote:

coderboy wrote:Don't feed the trolls.

Hardly a troll. I genuinely don't like anime.

Although, I was exaggerating when I said it put me off the game. I talk specifically about Japanese style anime as well. Generally, I don't like the culture that surrounds anime - similar to things like JRPGs, the angsty teens with scene haircuts and whatnot. You know what I'm on about. I know I may be generalising, but regardless, I do stay away from that kind of culture. I don't like the art style of anime either. So it's really just a taste thing, but I don't like it. My brother keeps telling me about animes he likes (Death Note and Soul Eater, for example). Sounds really lame to me.

I have no problem with people who do like it - let me make that perfectly clear. But the association between go and anime is not one I am fond of.

Thanks for sharing Annihilist.

Bantari also suggested that the anime actually put him off the game a little. I find this interesting since in my mind the link between Go and anime is so insignificant that the idea of it affecting your enjoyment of the game sounds impossible to me.

I enjoyed HNG (introduced me to Go) along with many other anime over the years. But for me, the culture that surrounds a thing doesn't usually affect my opinion of the thing itself. So I guess it's just a different way of looking at things.

I suppose there's a certain vanity/ego complex at work, i.e. not wanting to be seen associating with a particular culture, and so distancing yourself from that culture in the eyes of others. To a certain extent, that is what I do.

I suppose I can understand Annihilist's point of view, as there are some very over-the-top sections of the current anime pop culture (here in Canada, anyways) that can be rather off-putting. Hell, I've been around anime for close to 20 years (which is impressive around here; not many new gen anime fans know older titles like Ushio and Tora, Magic Knights Rayearth, Bakuretsu Hunters and even Rurouni Kenshin ... it's all Death Note, One Piece, Naruto, Bleach ...) and I can't stand a lot of "anime fans".

That being said, I do enjoy when I find a great story, and there are a lot of good stories being told in Japanese (and other cultures') animation style(s). I'm just a big kid, so "watching cartoons" of any type is simply what I enjoy doing. I don't need to dress up or talk about or obsess over shows. I can just sit back and enjoy.

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On another note, yesterday I wanted to keep my 4 year old out of trouble for a short period of time while I was cleaning up the kitchen, so I planted him in front of my laptop and put on some Hikaru No Go for him to watch while within my view. That night, before going to bed, he asked me "Can I watch more of the show about the game tomorrow?". I guess it made an impression on him.

Annihilist wrote:

coderboy wrote:Don't feed the trolls.

Hardly a troll. I genuinely don't like anime.

Although, I was exaggerating when I said it put me off the game. I talk specifically about Japanese style anime as well. Generally, I don't like the culture that surrounds anime - similar to things like JRPGs, the angsty teens with scene haircuts and whatnot. You know what I'm on about. I know I may be generalising, but regardless, I do stay away from that kind of culture. I don't like the art style of anime either. So it's really just a taste thing, but I don't like it. My brother keeps telling me about animes he likes (Death Note and Soul Eater, for example). Sounds really lame to me.

I have no problem with people who do like it - let me make that perfectly clear. But the association between go and anime is not one I am fond of.

Silly you. Death Note is pretty awesome. Well, except for a part in the middle.

I understand not liking the art, but not all stories told through the medium are bad. Some have very funny stuff, instead of angsty teens. Others have very serious stories, or interesting ethical questions, among other things. There's one for every taste.

I think you're missing out because of the social association you're making. Oh well. Not my loss.

I like some anime (love Miyazaki's work, for instance), but I sort of relate to Anihilist's point of view in that I gravitate away from the more juvenile stuff. The one aspect of anime that makes HnG rather juvenile, at least in my eyes, is the way in which the game is given heightened drama by portraying it as though it were a physical combat sport. The characters pick up stones, strike karate-like poses, and then place the stones with all the usual anime-styled whooshing lines of "dramatic force" while shouting some woefully inappropriate invective. While this might appeal to children, it just looks silly and contrived to me. And while one might say, "Well that's what you have to expect from anime, stylistically," that is probably why Anihilist dislikes anime.

I should point out, however, that HnG isn't the only show based on a classic board game that gets this sort of contrived, silly treatment. Both Shion no O and Hachi One Diver do this very same thing with regard to shogi, and in its own way it is rather off-putting, at least for those viewers such as myself that would like to see good stories told with less of that silly anime "flash" and goofy over-acting/emoting. I mean, if that is what you have to do to make games like go and shogi appealing to kids, then these games are ultimately doomed.

The point of HnG is to get kids into go. Of course they're going to make it more exciting than a day at the local go club.

zslane wrote:I like some anime (love Miyazaki's work, for instance), but I sort of relate to Anihilist's point of view in that I gravitate away from the more juvenile stuff. The one aspect of anime that makes HnG rather juvenile, at least in my eyes, is the way in which the game is given heightened drama by portraying it as though it were a physical combat sport. The characters pick up stones, strike karate-like poses, and then place the stones with all the usual anime-styled whooshing lines of "dramatic force" while shouting some woefully inappropriate invective. While this might appeal to children, it just looks silly and contrived to me. And while one might say, "Well that's what you have to expect from anime, stylistically," that is probably why Anihilist dislikes anime.

I should point out, however, that HnG isn't the only show based on a classic board game that gets this sort of contrived, silly treatment. Both Shion no O and Hachi One Diver do this very same thing with regard to shogi, and in its own way it is rather off-putting, at least for those viewers such as myself that would like to see good stories told with less of that silly anime "flash" and goofy over-acting/emoting. I mean, if that is what you have to do to make games like go and shogi appealing to kids, then these games are ultimately doomed.

Ok, I know what you mean. The story was still good, despite all those boys' anime cliches, though.

Annihilist wrote:I genuinely don't like anime.

How do you feel about Disney cartoons and animation (which, like anime, also span many decades [since the 1930s for Disney] as well as many distinct styles and genres) ?

zslane wrote:I like some anime (love Miyazaki's work, for instance), but I sort of relate to Anihilist's point of view in that I gravitate away from the more juvenile stuff. The one aspect of anime that makes HnG rather juvenile, at least in my eyes, is the way in which the game is given heightened drama by portraying it as though it were a physical combat sport. The characters pick up stones, strike karate-like poses, and then place the stones with all the usual anime-styled whooshing lines of "dramatic force" while shouting some woefully inappropriate invective. While this might appeal to children, it just looks silly and contrived to me. And while one might say, "Well that's what you have to expect from anime, stylistically," that is probably why Anihilist dislikes anime.

I should point out, however, that HnG isn't the only show based on a classic board game that gets this sort of contrived, silly treatment. Both Shion no O and Hachi One Diver do this very same thing with regard to shogi, and in its own way it is rather off-putting, at least for those viewers such as myself that would like to see good stories told with less of that silly anime "flash" and goofy over-acting/emoting. I mean, if that is what you have to do to make games like go and shogi appealing to kids, then these games are ultimately doomed.

Precisely. I have actually liked some of Miyazaki's work, but it's very hit-and-miss for me. I tire of his stuff pretty easily. Again, though, that's personal taste.

EdLee wrote:

Annihilist wrote:I genuinely don't like anime.

How do you feel about Disney cartoons and animation (which, like anime, also span many decades [since the 1930s for Disney] as well as many distinct styles and genres) ?

Not a fan of Disney animations either. It's always the stupid fairytale bullcrap. Again, hit-and-miss though, as I like some of the stuff that's a little more innovative and compelling.

The 3D animations like Pixar and Dreamworks are more appealing to me. DW however fails to tell quality stories in the same way. Yet again, hit-and-miss. Mostly miss. Pixar is pretty much always great though.

Not sure if this answers your question, but it's fairly off topic regardless.

Annihilist, yes, you answered the question, thanks. I'm not a big fan of Disney animations, either.
But there are quite a few Japanese manga and anime that I find excellent.