Life In 19x19

Suji wrote:With Go and Chess I've had to learn patience. I'm better with patience than I was two years ago, though that might be due to the fact that I'm getting older, and *hopefully* more mature.

I could go on, but I think I get your point that just because you improve at something doesn't mean you'll improve in other areas. IMHO you do improve in other areas, but if so I don't think one could accurately measure such improvement.

Here's a list (by no means extensive) of what one *could* improve by learning Go and/or Chess: Critical thinking, Math, Reading, Science, Problem Solving, and Thinking Under Pressure (due to time pressure).

Well put.

I agree that you can probably improve those areas by studying go. The thing that bothers me is when people attach too much meaning and make too wide generalizations from their favourite hobby. It's not just go, it happens whenever people spend much time on something. Some people really want their hobbies to have broader implications in life and society in general.

It's a game, and a fascinating one, and if studied long and hard can probably have some benefits in other areas (but hardly in relation to time spent). By studying go you get better at go. I believe if you settle with those expectations you can't go wrong. But if you are studying go in order to reap benefits elsewhere you will mostly be wasting time. There are probably much better ways to exercise those qualities.

CarlJung wrote:

Suji wrote:With Go and Chess I've had to learn patience. I'm better with patience than I was two years ago, though that might be due to the fact that I'm getting older, and *hopefully* more mature.

I could go on, but I think I get your point that just because you improve at something doesn't mean you'll improve in other areas. IMHO you do improve in other areas, but if so I don't think one could accurately measure such improvement.

Here's a list (by no means extensive) of what one *could* improve by learning Go and/or Chess: Critical thinking, Math, Reading, Science, Problem Solving, and Thinking Under Pressure (due to time pressure).

Well put.

I agree that you can probably improve those areas by studying go. The thing that bothers me is when people attach too much meaning and make too wide generalizations from their favourite hobby. It's not just go, it happens whenever people spend much time on something. Some people really want their hobbies to have broader implications in life and society in general.

It's a game, and a fascinating one, and if studied long and hard can probably have some benefits in other areas (but hardly in relation to time spent). By studying go you get better at go. I believe if you settle with those expectations you can't go wrong. But if you are studying go in order to reap benefits elsewhere you will mostly be wasting time. There are probably much better ways to exercise those qualities.

Agreed.

Learning languages and playing games like Go, chess, and bridge seem to help keep brains sharp longer later in life. Go may also reinforce things like concentration and competitive spirit in younger minds as well.

If concepts are tools for thinking, go has added many concepts to my vocabulary -- aji, miai, sabaki to name a few. I believe I am able to think thoughts that I could not without encountering these concepts, kind of like the limits mathematicians had before someone hit on the idea of "zero".

kibi wrote:If concepts are tools for thinking, go has added many concepts to my vocabulary -- aji, miai, sabaki to name a few. I believe I am able to think thoughts that I could not without encountering these concepts, kind of like the limits mathematicians had before someone hit on the idea of "zero".

Should I prepare dinner or go buy take-out?

They're miai, so I'll just sit here and watch high dan games on KGS instead.

I recall an old saying, "If yer so smart, why ain't ya rich?"

It does seem that thinking in Go makes me ... play better Go.

Personely I think that nothing can make the person smart of dumb - you are born smart or not smart - like there is nothing that can make you beautiful.
I have met chess players that were several times champions and still they do not know what is the capital of Poland, or where Bulgaria is located. If you are born not smart (like me) you will be like that forever. The question remains which path you will chose - if you chose to be a criminal for example you will be a smart criminal but nothing more. But if you chose to be a well mannered citizen, you will be happy for the rest of your life. So it is up to any person, but by playing go or chess or both, won't make you smarter. Pufff, I wrote so much and I still didn't understand what I wrote

Go is interesting to me because it has it's own ways of rewarding serious, sustained effort. The more effort I put into Go, the more I find myself willing to invest similar effort into other endeavors.

It's been a large net positive in my life.

Pep talk?

Who are you and what have you done to the real Helel?

Stefany93 wrote:Personely I think that nothing can make the person smart of dumb - you are born smart or not smart - like there is nothing that can make you beautiful.
I have met chess players that were several times champions and still they do not know what is the capital of Poland, or where Bulgaria is located. If you are born not smart (like me) you will be like that forever. The question remains which path you will chose - if you chose to be a criminal for example you will be a smart criminal but nothing more. But if you chose to be a well mannered citizen, you will be happy for the rest of your life. So it is up to any person, but by playing go or chess or both, won't make you smarter. Pufff, I wrote so much and I still didn't understand what I wrote

With all due respect, I disagree. I believe that "smart" can be learned. Of course, everyone is born with innate talents, but it's up to us how to use them. Also, if you aren't born with a talent, it does not mean that you can't acquire that talent. All it means is that talent is going to take you a longer time to learn than most people.

Its interesting, a few years ago I would have agreed with Stefany, but now I'm beginning to suspect that whereas 'smart' cannot be learned, one can certainly become more stupid.

Aphelion wrote:Its interesting, a few years ago I would have agreed with Stefany, but now I'm beginning to suspect that whereas 'smart' cannot be learned, one can certainly become more stupid.

And once you have become stupid, can you bring your smarts back?

I'm not sure, but I suspect it would be hard for a stupid person to extricate himself .

Aphelion wrote:I'm not sure, but I suspect it would be hard for a stupid person to extricate himself .

Yes, indeed. I have become stupid ... and now I need to find my smarts again. It's definitely not easy.

Helel wrote:Go and eat your stones orc face!

(I assume you meant me, and it's not paranoia when they really are out to get you.)

Aside from orc face being an awesome insult, could this be the immovable helel ... rattled?