Life In 19x19

speedchase wrote:To my knowledge none exist (except the comments on youtube videos). And no, I don't think that means that I should revise my definition.

What term would you use to describe the situation in America?

yoyoma wrote:

speedchase wrote:To my knowledge none exist (except the comments on youtube videos). And no, I don't think that means that I should revise my definition.

What term would you use to describe the situation in America?

Idiocracy?


(just kidding. Don't hate me. I know plenty of brilliant Americans. )

EdLee wrote: You think it means it's OK to scream "Fire!" in a crowded theater?

It so happens that this example comes from one of the most extreme judicial statement in support of censorship in our nation's history, and one which was later overturned.

(I do not, however, know the exact status of shouting fire in a crowded theatre today in 2012).

I am only sharing this because I find it's a nice bit of history, not because I want to comment on KGS.

hyperpape, thanks. Very interesting.

speedchase wrote:

Bantari wrote:To cut to the chase, to those who think 'freedom' means 'i can do anything i want',

Having freedom means being able to do whatever you want. Having freedom of something (speech for example) means being able to do what ever you want with respect to that thing.

Bantari wrote:Yes, you can do anything you want.

No you can't. Don't be absurd. A society where anyone can do anything they want to anyone would collapse instantly.

Bantari wrote:But then the world can do anything it wants to you in return. Freedom works both ways.
If you don't like the consequences, think before doing. But you are free to do, of course. Your choice.

This isn't true either. Part of Freedom is the ability to avoid punishment.

Ok... so:
First - you say that 'do anything you want' without consequences is absurd because society would 'collapse instantly.'
Then - you say that 'part of Freedom is the ability to to avoid punishment.'

I hope you can see the absurdity of this whole situation. And this thread:
First - there is a statement that there is no Freedom of Speech on KGS (like its a bad thing.)
Then - there is a definition of 'Freedom of Speech' (say anything anywhere anywhen without consequences) which is not only impossible to implement, but undesirable even if it was possible.

The whole thing is absurd.
Glad we agree.

PS>
Unless we look at Freedom in general, and Freedom Of Speech in particular differently - this discussion is pretty idiotic, starting with what the OP said.

Bantari wrote:Ok... so:
First - you say that 'do anything you want' without consequences is absurd because society would 'collapse instantly.'
Then - you say that 'part of Freedom is the ability to to avoid punishment.'

I hope you can see the absurdity of this whole situation. And this thread:
First - there is a statement that there is no Freedom of Speech on KGS (like its a bad thing.)
Then - there is a definition of 'Freedom of Speech' (say anything anywhere anywhen without consequences) which is not only impossible to implement, but undesirable even if it was possible.

The whole thing is absurd.
Glad we agree.

PS>
Unless we look at Freedom in general, and Freedom Of Speech in particular differently - this discussion is pretty idiotic, starting with what the OP said.

I've said several times that I don't think true Freedom of speech is a good idea. Maybe if you read some of my posts instead of just being self righteous about everything you'd be less confused.

speedchase wrote:

Bantari wrote:Ok... so:
First - you say that 'do anything you want' without consequences is absurd because society would 'collapse instantly.'
Then - you say that 'part of Freedom is the ability to to avoid punishment.'

I hope you can see the absurdity of this whole situation. And this thread:
First - there is a statement that there is no Freedom of Speech on KGS (like its a bad thing.)
Then - there is a definition of 'Freedom of Speech' (say anything anywhere anywhen without consequences) which is not only impossible to implement, but undesirable even if it was possible.

The whole thing is absurd.
Glad we agree.

PS>
Unless we look at Freedom in general, and Freedom Of Speech in particular differently - this discussion is pretty idiotic, starting with what the OP said.

I've said several times that I don't think true Freedom of speech is a good idea. Maybe if you read some of my posts instead of just being self righteous about everything you'd be less confused.

Sorry... just wondering what was your point then.
You disagree with me? You agree with me? With the OP? Just making side comment? Trying hard to contribute but not knowing how? Yeah... confusing.

From what you say above - it seems you agree with me: Freedom of Speech, as defined here by some (can say anything) is not a good idea. And not desirable.
And yet you seem to disagree with what I say.
Yeah... confusing.

Are people trying to fill Jasiek's definition discussion quota or something? Perhaps more people enjoyed his discussion style than they professed to doing.

If someone comes into my house and I don't like what he is doing, then I can kick him out. End of story, right? You can say that I am a meanie for kicking you out, but not that I violated your rights.

We do not have to get into a high-level philosophical discussion about the meaning of freedom. That seems quite tiring. No one likes getting tired, right?

lemmata wrote:Are people trying to fill Jasiek's definition discussion quota or something? Perhaps more people enjoyed his discussion style than they professed to doing.

Absolutely not! There is no plot to maintain any kind of quota whatsoever. That's crazy talk.


To avoid making that kind of mistake again, you should read chapters six to eight of my book.




Working through everyone else's holidays is pushing my humor to the dark side.

On the subject of Yahoo Go, playing there was one of the reasons I quit playing Go back in 2005 or so (when I originally picked it up) because the rating system Yahoo uses does not work well for a game like Go. Most of my matches ended up being squash matches for my opponents.

It's fortunate I discovered this forum and KGS in 2010 otherwise I likely never would have gotten to where I am today. People can complain about KGS all they want, but I've very rarely had problems on it. And in my experience, KGS is the best site to play Go on.

DeFlow wrote:I've just been kicked from KGS for swearing once

Why would anyone get kicked for swearing, of all things? Is it really KGS policy, just in case we have any naïve children playing go?

Annihilist wrote:

DeFlow wrote:I've just been kicked from KGS for swearing once

Why would anyone get kicked for swearing, of all things? Is it really KGS policy, just in case we have any naïve children playing go?

Yes. I've even seen someone warned for using the acronym "wtf".

Annihilist wrote:Why would anyone get kicked for swearing, of all things? Is it really KGS policy, just in case we have any naïve children playing go?

The terms of service page specifically identifies swearing as unacceptable on KGS. KGS wants people of all ages to enjoy playing on the site and viewing bad language can be quite unpleasant.

There are other servers which are more tolerant of bad language. If you want to play on KGS, it's a good idea to avoid bad language in public rooms.

BigDoug wrote:

Annihilist wrote:Why would anyone get kicked for swearing, of all things? Is it really KGS policy, just in case we have any naïve children playing go?

The terms of service page specifically identifies swearing as unacceptable on KGS. KGS wants people of all ages to enjoy playing on the site and viewing bad language can be quite unpleasant.

I have never understood this. Maybe it's just me, but really, it's nothing to get worked up about.

Annihilist wrote:I have never understood this. Maybe it's just me, but really, it's nothing to get worked up about.

Some people have mentioned (a) the analogy of strangers coming to your home and swearing at the dinner table.
I seem to remember some people not liking that analogy.
So, another analogy is (b) strangers swearing at the next dinner table in a restaurant.
A third analogy is (c) Go members swearing at a Go club, say, the Seattle Go Center.

As Doug mentioned, I'm sure there are restaurants and Go clubs where swearing is OK.
But if a particular restaurant or Go club does not tolerate swearing, it is also their choice.

(BTW, I dunno the SGC's policy on swearing.)

So, Annihilist, is it fair to say you're completely comfortable to bring your family (including little children)
to a restaurant or a Go club where strangers can swear left and right?
In particular, you're comfortable with a stranger swearing to your spouse or your child?
If you are, then I don't know what to say.