Fascinating. This probably wasn't ideal but c'est la vie. Nevertheless, maybe I'll get sente out of this and form a fabulous right side. Then I can use that fabulosity to forge an even more fantastic center.
But maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. My goal is to not play stupid moves. Likely I will do exactly that without realizing it, but we shall see!
My gut feeling is that I still have something to gain at the top. But this is more important. And I'll probably target the left side if I can get sente out of this. My right side looks good, but I can diminish the left side for if I play intelligently ( ).
I'm also keen on seeing how the center ends out considering how the top right ended up. Never seen that situation before so I kind of had to go with the flow there.
Sehr interessant!
Re: hailthorn vs. billywoods #202
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:00 am
by Sur
Both are missing that white's top group is really weak. So is black upper right corner. Black O18 is continuation of the joseki, white would probably respond and than black can make territory and attack white at the same time. But white can solve his issues by attacking the corner now. Curious who sees this first
Re: hailthorn vs. billywoods #202
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:51 am
by wineandgolover
Sur wrote:Both are missing that white's top group is really weak. So is black upper right corner. Black O18 is continuation of the joseki, white would probably respond and than black can make territory and attack white at the same time. But white can solve his issues by attacking the corner now. Curious who sees this first
Agreed, urgent before big. At first I wanted white to play R14, but then he has two groups. Instead, white Q17 looks very nice. Do you tenuki now to do it, or do you first, just play R3, and expect to gain sente?
Re: hailthorn vs. billywoods #202
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:57 am
by wineandgolover
billywoods wrote:By the way (for the observers): this game is open book, which hopefully means we'll both learn something...
Does "open book" mean you can read the comments, even the closed ones? If so, is it bad form for viewers to make suggestions before plays? If so, I apologize for my bad form in the previous comment.
Re: hailthorn vs. billywoods #202
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:49 am
by Uberdude
wineandgolover wrote:
billywoods wrote:By the way (for the observers): this game is open book, which hopefully means we'll both learn something...
Does "open book" mean you can read the comments, even the closed ones? If so, is it bad form for viewers to make suggestions before plays? If so, I apologize for my bad form in the previous comment.
No, it means the players can look in joseki dictionaries, pro games, other books etc. to help them play.
Re: hailthorn vs. billywoods #202
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:12 am
by billywoods
wineandgolover wrote:
billywoods wrote:By the way (for the observers): this game is open book, which hopefully means we'll both learn something...
Does "open book" mean you can read the comments, even the closed ones? If so, is it bad form for viewers to make suggestions before plays? If so, I apologize for my bad form in the previous comment.
No, as Uberdude said - I'm not reading the comments!
I'm curious to see what people are saying, and whether or not it matches up to what I'm thinking. This is the part of the game I feel weakest at. I suppose I might as well throw my whole-board feelings out there at the moment:
help what's going on help I don't understand help help
I really have trouble judging what's biggest on a board like this. I've been controlling the flow of the game for a while but don't really feel like I've managed to do anything globally useful with it. I was happy with the upper-right result because I think I'm quite strong there and black is quite weak, but as soon as black spends another stone there my fun is over. Still, if I jump in at R14 or Q14 or so I get split and probably everything in that area turns into a horrible 2-point group. Is that good? I don't know. I could also jump, but is that sente? Is it big? It looks like it might just strengthen black. Who knows. The upper left is nice for me - but black's shape looks a little too strong now and anything I do there now will be gote (and not that big since the left side is very open). So I approached a corner. Because... corners before sides before centre? And my first thoughts on this pincer are to jump into the corner: black will block from 'above', I'll get sente, the lower side will become uninteresting, and I get to flatten the upper-right corner somehow. Maybe. But then black still gets a big lump of territory, and the left is still open, and I don't really seem to have a coherent plan here.
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:30 am
by EdLee
billywoods,
billywoods wrote:I really have trouble judging what's biggest on a board like this.
I understand how you feel.
Re:
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:39 am
by billywoods
Ed:
Yes - I imagine getting over this stage is the necessary hurdle to take me from 4k to about 7d.
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:30 am
by EdLee
billywoods,
billywoods wrote:Yes - I imagine getting over this stage is the necessary hurdle to take me from 4k to about 7d.
Sorry to disappoint you, but this stage never really goes away: even pros encounter situations where they are not sure what's the biggest move.
Re: hailthorn vs. billywoods #202
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:04 am
by Uberdude
@billy:
Some general advice, if such is allowed, is that with the o3 approach you declared that area was biggest. Perhaps that was right, perhaps it was wrong. But at least you next moves should be consistent with your past moves, so unless it is already a good exchange or you can come up with some coherent idea of why that approach was a probe to help you decide between different choices elsewhere you should do something with your last move. A bad plan is better than no plan at all, as they say.
if I play intelligently ( 
). 
