Life In 19x19

EdLee wrote:

burrkitty wrote:pro (which is what? Shodan? 3d? What changes d to p? Money and a org?)

msgreg wrote:I took the original question to mean...

The tone of voice was unclear to me. I could not tell whether it was rhetorical, a joke, sarcasm, or a genuine search for information.

No sarcasm or rhetoric. I really don't know. PM's or discussion or a new thread or whatever, I'd just like to know! the difference between a pro and a amateur in many things comes down to whether or not you get paid and what the umbrella organization said the rules are. Go has a bunch of orgs with different rules around the world. So, what makes a pro? There has to be money and orgs involved, but what is it skill wise? Are there "amateurs" as good or better than pros? I haven't cared about anything but learning how to play (perhaps 'well' someday >.< ) so I haven't learned much about the 'system'. Embarrassing as it is to admit it...

burrkitty wrote:so I haven't learned much about the 'system'. Embarrassing as it is to admit it...

burrkitty, actually there's nothing to be embarrassed about. Most people (the general public)
know very little about pros. This is a very deep, interesting, and rich topic.

For starters, look at the pro exam, held annually, in China.
(I'm much less familiar with the pro exams in Korea or in Japan,
although Hikaru spent a few chapters on it. ) So the following refers to China.

Some years ago, there used to be around 200 people taking the pro exam.
Recently, it may be up to 400, or even 500. These are among the best amateurs
in the country. I think the current number is around 20 new pros per year.
Take into account the population of the country, and the Go population.
About 20 new pros per year. Think about what this means.

burrkitty wrote:No sarcasm or rhetoric. I really don't know. PM's or discussion or a new thread or whatever, I'd just like to know! the difference between a pro and a amateur in many things comes down to whether or not you get paid and what the umbrella organization said the rules are. Go has a bunch of orgs with different rules around the world. So, what makes a pro? There has to be money and orgs involved, but what is it skill wise? Are there "amateurs" as good or better than pros? I haven't cared about anything but learning how to play (perhaps 'well' someday >.< ) so I haven't learned much about the 'system'. Embarrassing as it is to admit it...

Basically pros are certified by a professional organization, and have the ability to play in tournaments organized by that organization (often they get a playing fee for playing official games as well). As Ed mentioned, there are many people trying to be pro, but in any given year there are only a handful who are actually certified, typically via a tournament. The end result is that there is a decent amount of luck involved in who actually gets to become a pro (that is, you have to be very strong and a bit lucky in the given qualifying tournament). To try and frame it in a more "US centric" context, imagine if professional sports only allowed 1 round in amateur draft every year. For sports fans: This means you have an NFL that never sees Brett Farve or Drew Brees, NBA that never sees Dennis Rodman or Mark Price, and MLB...well its draft is such a crapshoot let's just not go there. The point is that the highly selective nature of choosing professionals means that the skill cutoff is more or less arbitrary and there is a sizable pool of amateurs with near equal skill to that of new pros, the only difference is the certification. Now, there may be some divergence after the players have been professional for a while, simply because if you start with two equal players and throw one into an environment where they are constantly playing and studying with the strongest opponents they will improve their game faster, but that's probably enough for a whole other thread.