Life In 19x19

Posted: **Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:27 pm**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c This is a label for the diagram. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O B . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . B . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

ta da!!
the shape!
the tiger mouth would have looked very awkward

So I suppose this move is better when you can't make a second tiger mouth?
And it moves a little faster outwards.

Idk i'll see if i can find other examples.

The diagonal seems like it actually is just a substitute when the one point jump doesn't work.
it's just too slow to be an every purpose move.
Also it's good when you don't want to commit in one direction (example commit to attacking only one group.)

Posted: **Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:12 am**

Unusedname wrote:
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c This is a label for the diagram. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O B . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . B . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

ta da!!
the shape!
the tiger mouth would have looked very awkward

So I suppose this move is better when you can't make a second tiger mouth?
And it moves a little faster outwards.

Idk i'll see if i can find other examples.

The diagonal seems like it actually is just a substitute when the one point jump doesn't work.
it's just too slow to be an every purpose move.
Also it's good when you don't want to commit in one direction (example commit to attacking only one group.)

Don't think too much about shape, and believe more of your self-reading. Blind faith in shape does make bad habits.

Posted: **Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:07 pm**

Played a few quick games.
lost 3 won 1

the one i won was through luck because he didn't read

two I lost I got lazy and didn't read, but it was looking bad anyways

one I lost for the same reason but i think i was going to win that one.

seems all a 4kyu needs to promote is not get lazy in the middle of a game.

Posted: **Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:13 am**

This happened in game.

I didn't notice it at the time but the bulge point gave me broken keima.

I would have liked the sealed in version a lot better.

I'm mad because I notice a lot of things I could have done when I'm reviewing a game.
I suppose that means I'm being too thoughtless when I play. I spend a lot of time thinking but I'm not thinking about things that matter...

this game had a lot of examples of http://senseis.xmp.net/?OneTwoThree

two times I did it right
two times I did it wrong like in this example with the bulge point.
I forced W to play the move he wanted to play.

Posted: **Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:14 am**

A couple of my kyu-ish comments : )

Posted: **Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:09 pm**

Hey SoDesuNe. I disagree with a few of your comments.

:b7:

you say white can live in the corner but if white plays there black captures O3 and i think thats good for black.

Also, I don't think :b11:

was toothpaste. Even if white played at Q6 that's more herding white through a narrow area where I can push him around.

I like your :b17:

O8 but I wanted to keep white weak and running. though it's funny you should mention invading at :b19:

J4 because I ended up building the influence to do exactly that!

I'd post the game but it's dumb lol.

Posted: **Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:26 pm**

: Giving Atari at o3 is very thick shape, it's true and White will have a hard time making anything out his wall but following this, I feel first playing Q10 ( :b3:

) and then defending the corner with P3 ( :b5:

) to finally give up the corner and the side is inconsistent. It feels to me that all those move are not working together.
If you deny White the corner first, your Q10 works effectively as a pincer to White's stone and the initiative is still all yours.

:b11:

: The first idea to attack a group should be to surround it so that is has to find small life. If White just lives there on the side in Gote, you have a very good game (just regarding the bottom part of the board). White's wall is ineffective but with your wall you can now jump in at J4 and attack. For me this is a clear goal.
Running out as White, might not be good, true - he could again weaken his wall and his bottom group -, but it is also not so clear for me what Black achieves. Furthermore Black's corner isn't settled, too.
This could be very well a stylistic choice but I like the plain surrounding and connecting to Q10 to jump in at J4 ; )

Posted: **Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:11 pm**

SoDesuNe wrote::b7: : Giving Atari at o3 is very thick shape, it's true and White will have a hard time making anything out his wall but following this, I feel first playing Q10 ( ) and then defending the corner with P3 ( ) to finally give up the corner and the side is inconsistent. It feels to me that all those move are not working together.
If you deny White the corner first, your Q10 works effectively as a pincer to White's stone and the initiative is still all yours.

: The first idea to attack a group should be to surround it so that is has to find small life. If White just lives there on the side in Gote, you have a very good game (just regarding the bottom part of the board). White's wall is ineffective but with your wall you can now jump in at J4 and attack. For me this is a clear goal.
Running out as White, might not be good, true - he could again weaken his wall and his bottom group -, but it is also not so clear for me what Black achieves. Furthermore Black's corner isn't settled, too.
This could be very well a stylistic choice but I like the plain surrounding and connecting to Q10 to jump in at J4 ; )

As far as being inconsistant, I didn't see the kick as "defending the corner" it was more for making white overconcentrated in the event he responds by extending up.

The side wasn't abandoned because the top corner was my 4-4 stone (Didn't think it would be relevant lol)

But I can see the merits of wanting to use it as a pincer stone, I just wanted to ensure his two groups were seperated.

As far as surrounding instead of squeezing out and attacking.
That is a good point. I think I used to play that way. I don't know why I stopped making it my priority.

I will be sure to try sealing in a group and showing how that game goes :]

Posted: **Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:14 pm**

Right now as a result of not knowing what to do against the 3-4 stone combined with the joseki thread of peterpeter

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c This is a label for the diagram. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . d b . 2 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

a - caps the approach and threatens to pincer more severely or just get a nice extension
b - pincers the W stone severely
c - peacefully extends along the side.
d - pincers more softly

b:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c This is a label for the diagram. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c b . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . e . a 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 2 . d . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

a - aims to settle quickly at r3 (I'm surprised to find out a isn't joseki. Especially since i've been using it as my normal response...)
b - separates B stones. while forcing B to respond from the corner.
c - separates B stones. threatens to surround the corner or cap/shoulder hit the pincer stone
d - tries to settle quickly with q4
e - separates B stones. B on the pivot point. Not joseki.

d:

will complete later. if i ever have free time again o__o

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c This is a label for the diagram. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 2 , 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . a 4 b . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:44 pm**

posting a win to feel better about myself :cool:

Lost like 7 games before this one. So something's wrong.
I wish I could blame that I was trying new joseki but I'm not.

So lately it's been passive play and no real improvements.
Who would have thought improvement would have required actively working to improve.

I miss the days when I could just read a post and get a stone stronger. :sigh:

Bill's post about looking at the number of stones in an area was a new perspective.
The idea of trying to go into a game with joseki in mind didn't really work out.

Stress from school has caused me to feel guilty about playing go.
That doesn't stop me from playing though. hehe.

Anyways here's the game. It was very frustrating.
My opponent was undercutting me everywhere and crawling on the second line. I knew that should have been a good exchange for me, but I knew if i made a mistake my opponent would live in the center and I would have traded territory for nothing.

Wasn't sure if :w21:

and

should have been closer.
:w39:

was my one move to make myself safe, I think I played it on the wrong side.
:w45:

was my plan to push black to the left and try to build up the bottom but I'm unsure if it was right

Posted: **Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:45 pm**

Unusedname wrote:Who would have thought improvement would have required actively working to improve.

Posted: **Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:52 pm**

You mean i can't just play 1000 blitz games in my spare time and become 1dan? :grumpy:

Posted: **Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:14 pm**

Unusedname wrote:You mean i can't just play 1000 blitz games in my spare time and become 1dan?

That's certainly possible, for some people. May you be one of the fortunate ones. :mrgreen:

Posted: **Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:21 am**

Few 1-kyu-ish comments on your last game: Overall you played much too timid in my opinion and followed Black with almost every move. I think that is not good in handicap games because you have to catch up. You also should consider playing Tenuki to get to bigger points much more often. To do this I would try to play more resilient shapes or Tenuki if you can find a good move locally. My feeling is your play in the upper right made it close to impossible for White to win. You invested stone after stone but still your shape was full of holes and after Black poked everywhere you ended up very clumsy and overconcentrated but with almost no points.

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:21 pm**

Yeah, that game was very timid. i was very afraid of those cutting stones just coming alive and ruining everything.

It makes sense to me to wait on :w3:

and

to see which one is more useful later.

but in game i would never think of that. it would just feel like i passed my first two moves.

:w21:

i finally played a bigger move and it was at the wrong time D:

:w32:

playing away does sound crazy, I just want those cutting stones dead ]:
but i do like B better then what i played and better then A

I like the though of considering tenuki more often but i hate having weak groups.

Life In 19x19

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