Life In 19x19

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:01 am**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm9 Prisoners: , $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . O . . . . O . . . . O X X X . | $$ | . X O O X O . O O X O O . . O X O X . | $$ | . X X X X O . O X X O X O O X X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X X O X . . . . | $$ | . . . X X X X O O O X . X O X . O O . | $$ | . . X O O O X . . . X X O O X . . X . | $$ | . . X O X X O O O X . . O X . . X . . | $$ | . . X O O . O . O X X X O X X X O . . | $$ | . . . X O O X O X X O O X X O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O O X O O . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . X O X O . X . 1 . X . O . | $$ | . . X . . 3 X . O . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X 2 X O O O . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X O X O O X X O O O O . . X O O . | $$ | . . O X X O X X . X X X O X X X X O . | $$ | . . O X O O X X X X . . . X O X O . . | $$ | . . O O . O X . X O O O O X O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O X . X O . . . O O O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:32 am**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: , $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . O . . . . O . . . . O X X X . | $$ | . X O O X O . O O X O O . . O X O X . | $$ | . X X X X O . O X X O X O O X X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X X O X . . . . | $$ | . . . X X X X O O O X . X O X . O O . | $$ | . . X O O O X . . . X X O O X . . X . | $$ | . . X O X X O O O X . . O X . . X . . | $$ | . . X O O . O . O X X X O X X X O . . | $$ | . . . X O O X O X X O O X X O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . 2 X X X O O X O O . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . X O X O . X . X . X . O . | $$ | . . X . . 1 X . O . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X O X O O O . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X O X O O X X O O O O . . X O O . | $$ | . . O X X O X X . X X X O X X X X O . | $$ | . . O X O O X X X X . . . X O X O . . | $$ | . . O O . O X . X O O O O X O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O X . X O . . . O O O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

After this move, I'll start playing moves in other areas. The hope is to lull Black into sleep. I want to accomplish the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: , $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . O . . . . O . . . . O X X X . | $$ | . X O O X O . O O X O O . . O X O X . | $$ | . X X X X O . O X X O X O O X X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X X O X . . . . | $$ | . . . X X X X O O O X . X O X . O O . | $$ | . . X O O O X . . . X X O O X . . X . | $$ | . . X O X X O O O X . W O X . . X . . | $$ | . . X O O . O . O X X X O X X X O . . | $$ | . . . X O O X O X X O O X X O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X X X O O X O O . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . X O X O . X . X . X . O . | $$ | . . X . . X X W O . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X O X O O O . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X O X O O X X O O O O . . X O O . | $$ | . . O X X O X X . X X X O X X X X O . | $$ | . . O X O O X X X X . . . X O X O W . | $$ | . . O O . O X . X O O O O X O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O X . X O . . . O O O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:43 am**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: , $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . O . . . . O . . . . O X X X . | $$ | . X O O X O . O O X O O . . O X O X . | $$ | . X X X X O . O X X O X O O X X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X X O X . . . . | $$ | . . . X X X X O O O X . X O X . O O . | $$ | . . X O O O X . . . X X O O X . . X . | $$ | . . X O X X O O O X . . O X . . X . . | $$ | . . X O O . O . O X X X O X X X O . . | $$ | . . . X O O X O X X O O X X O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . 2 X X X O O X O O . X O X . | $$ | . . . . 3 . X O X O . X . X . X . O . | $$ | . . X . . 1 X . O . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X O X O O O . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X O X O O X X O O O O . . X O O . | $$ | . . O X X O X X . X X X O X X X X O . | $$ | . . O X O O X X X X . . . X O X O . . | $$ | . . O O . O X . X O O O O X O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O X . X O . . . O O O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:37 am**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 Prisoners: , $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . O . . . . O . . . . O X X X . | $$ | . X O O X O . O O X O O . . O X O X . | $$ | . X X X X O . O X X O X O O X X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X X O X . . . . | $$ | . . . X X X X O O O X . X O X . O O . | $$ | . . X O O O X . . . X X O O X . . X . | $$ | . . X O X X O O O X . . O X . . X . . | $$ | . . X O O . O . O X X X O X X X O . . | $$ | . . . X O O X O X X O O X X O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X X X O O X O O . X O X . | $$ | . . . . 1 . X O X O . X . X . X . O . | $$ | . . X . . X X . O . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X O X O O O . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . 2 X O X O O X X O O O O . . X O O . | $$ | . . O X X O X X . X X X O X X X X O . | $$ | . . O X O O X X X X . . . X O X O . . | $$ | . . O O . O X . X O O O O X O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O X . X O . . . O O O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:52 am**

White missed his opportunity to resign.

Edit: Unhidden.

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:35 am**

Let's make a quick calculation of how much the move is worth.

1). A simplified calculation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ | . . . . . $$ | C C X . . $$ | 4 2 X . X $$ | 5 1 X O X $$ | 3 M O X X $$ | M M O X O $$ | M M O O . $$ | . . . O . $$ ------------[/go]

Score W = (+5) + (-2) = (+3)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ | . . . . . $$ | C C X . . $$ | C C X . X $$ | 3 C X O X $$ | 5 1 O X X $$ | 4 2 O X O $$ | M M O O . $$ | . . . O . $$ ------------[/go]

Score B = (+2) + (-5) = (-3) (We could have gotten this result by seeing that White and Black stones are symmetrically distributed.)

Thus, the move is worth approximately Score Difference = Score W - Score B = (+3) - (-3) = (+6)

2). A more rigorous calculation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ | . . . . . $$ | . . X . . $$ | . 2 X . X $$ | . 1 X O X $$ | 3 . O X X $$ | . . O X O $$ | . . O O . $$ | . . . O . $$ ------------[/go]

This ends in gote for Black. Thus, both players have 50% to play in the area first.

If White plays first, the result is:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm5 $$ | . . . . . $$ | 2 C X . . $$ | 1 X X . X $$ | 3 O X O X $$ | O M O X X $$ | M M O X O $$ | M M O O . $$ | . . . O . $$ ------------[/go]

Score WW = +4

If Black plays first, the play is again gote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm4 $$ | . . . . . $$ | . . X . . $$ | 1 X X . X $$ | . O X O X $$ | O . O X X $$ | . . O X O $$ | . . O O . $$ | . . . O . $$ ------------[/go]

Thus, each player again has 50% chance to be the first one to play the followup.

If White plays first,

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm5 $$ | . . . . . $$ | C C X . . $$ | X X X . X $$ | 1 O X O X $$ | O M O X X $$ | M M O X O $$ | M M O O . $$ | . . . O . $$ ------------[/go]

Score WBW = +3

If Black plays first,

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm6 $$ | . . . . . $$ | C C X . . $$ | X X X . X $$ | 1 O X O X $$ | O 2 O X X $$ | M M O X O $$ | M M O O . $$ | . . . O . $$ ------------[/go]

Score WBB = +2

Therefore, Score W = 50% * Score WW + 50% * [50% * Score WBW + 50% * Score Score WBB] = (+2) + 0.5 * [(+1.5) + (+1)] = +3.25

By symmetry, Score B = (-1) * Score W = -3.25

Therefore, Score Difference = Score W - Score B = +6.5

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:55 am**

@Bill Spight

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:06 am**

The Intrepid wrote:Let's make a quick calculation of how much the move is worth.

1). A simplified calculation:
$$Wc
$$ | . . . . .
$$ | C C X . .
$$ | 4 2 X . X
$$ | 5 1 X O X
$$ | 3 M O X X
$$ | M M O X O
$$ | M M O O .
$$ | . . . O .
$$ ------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc $$ | . . . . . $$ | C C X . . $$ | 4 2 X . X $$ | 5 1 X O X $$ | 3 M O X X $$ | M M O X O $$ | M M O O . $$ | . . . O . $$ ------------[/go]
Score W = (+5) + (-2) = (+3)
$$Bc
$$ | . . . . .
$$ | C C X . .
$$ | C C X . X
$$ | 3 C X O X
$$ | 5 1 O X X
$$ | 4 2 O X O
$$ | M M O O .
$$ | . . . O .
$$ ------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ | . . . . . $$ | C C X . . $$ | C C X . X $$ | 3 C X O X $$ | 5 1 O X X $$ | 4 2 O X O $$ | M M O O . $$ | . . . O . $$ ------------[/go]
Score B = (+2) + (-5) = (-3) (We could have gotten this result by seeing that White and Black stones are symmetrically distributed.)

Thus, the move is worth approximately Score Difference = Score W - Score B = (+3) - (-3) = (+6)

2). A more rigorous calculation:
$$Wc
$$ | . . . . .
$$ | . . X . .
$$ | . 2 X . X
$$ | . 1 X O X
$$ | 3 . O X X
$$ | . . O X O
$$ | . . O O .
$$ | . . . O .
$$ ------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc $$ | . . . . . $$ | . . X . . $$ | . 2 X . X $$ | . 1 X O X $$ | 3 . O X X $$ | . . O X O $$ | . . O O . $$ | . . . O . $$ ------------[/go]
This ends in gote for Black. Thus, both players have 50% to play in the area first.

If White plays first, the result is:
$$Wcm5
$$ | . . . . .
$$ | 2 C X . .
$$ | 1 X X . X
$$ | 3 O X O X
$$ | O M O X X
$$ | M M O X O
$$ | M M O O .
$$ | . . . O .
$$ ------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm5 $$ | . . . . . $$ | 2 C X . . $$ | 1 X X . X $$ | 3 O X O X $$ | O M O X X $$ | M M O X O $$ | M M O O . $$ | . . . O . $$ ------------[/go]
Score WW = +4

If Black plays first, the play is again gote:
$$Bcm4
$$ | . . . . .
$$ | . . X . .
$$ | 1 X X . X
$$ | . O X O X
$$ | O . O X X
$$ | . . O X O
$$ | . . O O .
$$ | . . . O .
$$ ------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm4 $$ | . . . . . $$ | . . X . . $$ | 1 X X . X $$ | . O X O X $$ | O . O X X $$ | . . O X O $$ | . . O O . $$ | . . . O . $$ ------------[/go]
Thus, each player again has 50% chance to be the first one to play the followup.

If White plays first,
$$Wcm5
$$ | . . . . .
$$ | C C X . .
$$ | X X X . X
$$ | 1 O X O X
$$ | O M O X X
$$ | M M O X O
$$ | M M O O .
$$ | . . . O .
$$ ------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm5 $$ | . . . . . $$ | C C X . . $$ | X X X . X $$ | 1 O X O X $$ | O M O X X $$ | M M O X O $$ | M M O O . $$ | . . . O . $$ ------------[/go]
Score WBW = +3

If Black plays first,
$$Bcm6
$$ | . . . . .
$$ | C C X . .
$$ | X X X . X
$$ | 1 O X O X
$$ | O 2 O X X
$$ | M M O X O
$$ | M M O O .
$$ | . . . O .
$$ ------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm6 $$ | . . . . . $$ | C C X . . $$ | X X X . X $$ | 1 O X O X $$ | O 2 O X X $$ | M M O X O $$ | M M O O . $$ | . . . O . $$ ------------[/go]
Score WBB = +2

Therefore, Score W = 50% * Score WW + 50% * [50% * Score WBW + 50% * Score Score WBB] = (+2) + 0.5 * [(+1.5) + (+1)] = +3.25

By symmetry, Score B = (-1) * Score W = -3.25

Therefore, Score Difference = Score W - Score B = +6.5[/hide]

You were right the first time.

$$Bcm4
$$ | . . . . .
$$ | . . X . .
$$ | 1 X X . X
$$ | . O X O X
$$ | O . O X X
$$ | . . O X O
$$ | . . O O .
$$ | . . . O .
$$ ------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm4 $$ | . . . . . $$ | . . X . . $$ | 1 X X . X $$ | . O X O X $$ | O . O X X $$ | . . O X O $$ | . . O O . $$ | . . . O . $$ ------------[/go]
Thus, each player again has 50% chance to be the first one to play the followup.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ | . . . . . $$ | . . X . . $$ | X X X . X $$ | 1 O X O X $$ | O 2 O X X $$ | . . O X O $$ | . . O O . $$ | . . . O . $$ ------------[/go]

In this position :b1:

is sente. We therefore do not say that each player has a 50% chance of playing here first. We regard :b1:

as Black's privilege.

This position is a bit tricky, however, because :b1:

in the next diagram is ambiguous between gote and sente.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm4 $$ | . . . . . $$ | . . X . . $$ | 1 X X . X $$ | 2 O X O X $$ | O . O X X $$ | . . O X O $$ | . . O O . $$ | . . . O . $$ ------------[/go]

That is, it is not sente, but :w2:

gains as much as :b1:

. Therefore White can play :w2:

, despite Black's privilege. (The point being that if White plays :w2:

, Black does not get the chance to raise the local temperature by playing there himself.) Anyway, the exchange, :b1:

-

does not change the local count.

Edit: Unhidden.

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:12 am**

skydyr wrote:@Bill Spight
Bill Spight wrote:White missed his opportunity to resign.

Could you clarify this? What were you looking at as the opportunity to resign?

There is a phrase, "looking for a place to resign", which is used when the player who is behind takes desperate measures which, assuming correct play by the opponent, are doomed to fail. White has made a sequence of four plays ( :w1:

-

) which could be called looking for a place to resign. Then when Black administered the coup de grace ( :b8:

), White did not resign.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . O . . . . O . . . . O X X X . | $$ | . X O O X O . O O X O O . . O X O X . | $$ | . X X X X O . O X X O X O O X X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . O . O X X X X O X . . . . | $$ | . . . X X X X O O O X . X O X . O O . | $$ | . . X O O O X . . . X X O O X . . X . | $$ | . . X O X X O O O X . . O X . . X . . | $$ | . . X O O . O . O X X X O X X X O . . | $$ | . . . X O O X O X X O O X X O X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X X X O 5 4 O O . 2 1 X . | $$ | . . . . . . X O X O . 6 . 8 . X . O . | $$ | . . X . . . X . 7 . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . X . X . X O O O . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X O X O O X X O O 3 O . . X O O . | $$ | . . O X X O X X . X X X O X X X X O . | $$ | . . O X O O X X X X . . . X O X O . . | $$ | . . O O . O X . X O O O O X O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O X . X O . . . O O O O . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I suppose that The Intrepid is playing on for the sake of the audience, but drishti deserve a round of applause.

Edit: Unhidden.

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:18 am**

You were right the first time.

Can I look at that hide tag now or only later?

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:19 am**

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:21 am**

The Intrepid wrote:
You were right the first time.
Can I look at that hide tag now or only later?

Oh, now. Sorry. I just hid it because you did.

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:38 am**

@Bill Spight

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:50 am**

Posted: **Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:55 am**

@mitsun, please hide your comment. My opponent is still playing.

Life In 19x19

#215: The Intrepid vs. drishti: Deep in the Endgame Weeds

Re: #215: The Intrepid vs. drishti: Deep in the Endgame Weed

Re: #215: The Intrepid vs. drishti: Deep in the Endgame Weed

Re: #215: The Intrepid vs. drishti: Deep in the Endgame Weed

Re: #215: The Intrepid vs. drishti: Deep in the Endgame Weed

Re: #215: The Intrepid vs. drishti: Deep in the Endgame Weed

Re: #215: The Intrepid vs. drishti: Deep in the Endgame Weed

Re: #215: The Intrepid vs. drishti: Deep in the Endgame Weed

Re: #215: The Intrepid vs. drishti: Deep in the Endgame Weed

Re: #215: The Intrepid vs. drishti: Deep in the Endgame Weed

Re: #215: The Intrepid vs. drishti: Deep in the Endgame Weed

Re: #215: The Intrepid vs. drishti: Deep in the Endgame Weed

Re: #215: The Intrepid vs. drishti: Deep in the Endgame Weed

Re: #215: The Intrepid vs. drishti: Deep in the Endgame Weed

Re: #215: The Intrepid vs. drishti: Deep in the Endgame Weed

Re: #215: The Intrepid vs. drishti: Deep in the Endgame Weed