Life In 19x19

Based on the above, looks like someone had his fun and paid the price.

The whole thing is very bizzare, but rather common in our new virtual world.
Some one logs in a server not to use it as "it was supposed to", but rather to have fun on "his" way.
The outcome is a show of "power", which is then presented to others as "racism".
I wonder if that would make any sense in the real world... A guy enters a Go club and...
I also wonder if banishment is the appropriate measure to take in such cases.
The virtual world makes it so easy to be applied, just click a button.
Real world justice has evolved to provide the offender with an appropriate penalty for his crime. Before that, everything was solved on a death penalty basis : stole an ox, death, stole an egg, death, collected firewood on a sabbath, death.
We seem to be using this kind of code nowadays.

Recently I witnessed a troll problem on IGS, we were watching a pro-match and this other fellow brazillian jumped in and started creating a fuss on how white (3p) was an idiot as he lost to a 9p. I tried to calm him down (no use) but the lunch break settled the problem.
During the break I chatted with the offender who turned out to be a problem kid (20yo).
No one seems to care about these people, they come, they go, they become cyber-homeless, living on the margins of the info-highway.

Ouch, that was a long philosophical rant....

bgrieco wrote:The whole thing is very bizzare, but rather common in our new virtual world.
Some one logs in a server not to use it as "it was supposed to", but rather to have fun on "his" way.
The outcome is a show of "power", which is then presented to others as "racism".
I wonder if that would make any sense in the real world... A guy enters a Go club and...
I also wonder if banishment is the appropriate measure to take in such cases.
The virtual world makes it so easy to be applied, just click a button.
Real world justice has evolved to provide the offender with an appropriate penalty for his crime. Before that, everything was solved on a death penalty basis : stole an ox, death, stole an egg, death, collected firewood on a sabbath, death.
We seem to be using this kind of code nowadays.

Recently I witnessed a troll problem on IGS, we were watching a pro-match and this other fellow brazillian jumped in and started creating a fuss on how white (3p) was an idiot as he lost to a 9p. I tried to calm him down (no use) but the lunch break settled the problem.
During the break I chatted with the offender who turned out to be a problem kid (20yo).
No one seems to care about these people, they come, they go, they become cyber-homeless, living on the margins of the info-highway.

Ouch, that was a long philosophical rant....

What is sabbath?

Bantari wrote:
What is sabbath?

It's a contraption invented to help disabled people move around. It fell out of use after the invention of the wheel and the subsequent spread of wheelchairs.

Bantari wrote:What is sabbath?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat

Bonobo wrote:

Bantari wrote:What is sabbath?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat

Lol... I guess finding the link and copy/pasting it here is easier than saying 'Its some jewish special day.' Or was you making a point?
Ok, I guess I deserved it...

Greetings,

What is sabbath?[/quote]

It`s an excellent band. Unfortunately we had to omit the other half of its name to forestall any accusations of racism.
Always glad to help,
Buri

Bantari wrote:Lol...

You’re welcome.

I guess finding the link and copy/pasting it here is easier than saying 'Its some jewish special day.' Or was you making a point?

<shrug> I thought giving you the opportunity to educate yourself better than I could do by telling what little I know would be a nice idea. Probably wasn’t, nevermind

Bonobo wrote:

Bantari wrote:Lol...

You’re welcome.

I guess finding the link and copy/pasting it here is easier than saying 'Its some jewish special day.' Or was you making a point?

<shrug> I thought giving you the opportunity to educate yourself better than I could do by telling what little I know would be a nice idea. Probably wasn’t, nevermind

<shrug> True.

bgrieco wrote:I wonder if that would make any sense in the real world... A guy enters a Go club and...

yes, a guy comes into our go club and starts raising a ruckus... he would be asked to leave. (and escorted by authorities, if necessary)

xed_over wrote:

bgrieco wrote:I wonder if that would make any sense in the real world... A guy enters a Go club and...

yes, a guy comes into our go club and starts raising a ruckus... he would be asked to leave. (and escorted by authorities, if necessary)

But that's the point. That usually don't happen in real life. There's enough "context" in the situation to help us deal with it.
For instance:
1) the guy is dress in ragged clothes, dirty, smells bad... He is escorted out of the club immediately, no need him to say anything.
2) the guy is an old Japanese man, dressed in traditional clothes, raises a ruckus. It will take some time before someone asks him, humbly, to leave.

BTW, sabbath, or Shabat is the 7th day. Sunday for Christians, Saturday for Jews and Muslims. The Bible documents that someone was sentenced to death because he was gathering sticks for his fire on this day. Starting a fire on Shabat was a sin and a crime punishable by death.

BigDoug wrote:Hello,

Normally I wouldn't post ban-related information about a player on KGS, but calling an admin a racist is a serious accusation. ....

I agree that calling someone a racist is a serious accusation. But there is no way to "fairly" judge this case, because your information about the matter is just that - your interpretation of the scenario portrayed in your own words. Admins on KGS are free to ban people as they like, but justification for their actions is subject to the interpretation of those present with the context of the situation that happened.

tl/dr: Of course a KGS admin that posts here will defend the admin's choice to ban. Likewise, they will defend the admin's choice to ban if you email to admin@gokgs.com. To quote wms from an admin complaint I sent some time back:

wms wrote:I don't even have time to bother with your email.
You need to realize:
1. KGS is run by volunteers. They are doing what they can, but getting nothing back. Anything that makes things too much of a pain in the ass means they'll start just getting rid of it any way they can, because they're not getting paid for this.
2. These volunteers are humans. If you piss them off, you will suffer.
3. You pay nothing, so #1 and #2 will not change.
I hope that explains things well enough. If you have made the mistake of pissing off the admins in an way whatsoever, they will be making you miserable. Oh well. Live and learn.

So when it comes down to it, it doesn't really matter who is "right" in these situations. Admins defend admin actions. They have the power to do whatever the h*** they feel like. And that won't change.

Kirby wrote:I agree that calling someone a racist is a serious accusation. But there is no way to "fairly" judge this case

True. But - is there a need to really fairly judge this case? And if so, who is to be the judge? You cannot say 'The Community' because, as usual, the community will most likely be divided. So everybody has to judge for themselves.

On one side we have a biased complaint with very heavy accusation but ABSOLUTELY NO DETAILS. On the other we have possibly biased explanation with SOME SELECTED DETAILS. I would lean towards the side which at least try to give us something rather than just tossing buzzwords around. And I notice there is no more further posts from the OP - he is probably happily playing on KGS now and already forgotten this whole story. Or maybe not...

Personally, I really think this is too much hassle about such cases. Look - I was banned from IGS for YEARS when IGS was pretty much the only game in town. And in spite of various claims on rgg neither Tweet nor Tim seem to have a clue WHY I have been banned (and I did ask Tweet about it recently, we are friends now, he said they just don't remember.) And the ban was final, there was no recourse for me to argue my case - whatever it was. And on top of that - I have had a bunch of yoyos ganging up on me on rgg like I was the bad guy.

Compared to this, being banned for a day - A SINGLE DAY - for using bad language, making stupid jokes, flooding, whatever... or maybe even getting misunderstood by an admin in lousy mood - this is really not such a big deal. Just take a deep breath, play somewhere else for a day - A SINGLE DAY - and when you come back to KGS try to behave better.

All things considered - KGS is an extremely friendly place, even if, of course, things do happen.

I mean - I really don't know what else to say here.
Other than - wow, people really do hold grudges!

Kirby wrote:...
So when it comes down to it, it doesn't really matter who is "right" in these situations. Admins defend admin actions. They have the power to do whatever the h*** they feel like. And that won't change.

I think you are confusing the issues here. This is not about whether or not the admins are fair, but rather whether or not they are racist.

I personally have no quibble with what wms wrote above. It is a big difference however if someone does something to piss off the admins, or if someone is something that pisses off admins.

Were it proven that an admin had banned someone for being something that they have no choice about (i.e., not for being a jerk) I strongly doubt that the admins would stick together.

Kirby, I think you need to step back from your theoretical point about KGS admins and what we can ever know, and just meditate on those first three posts (by the OP). Are those posts credible? And if not, why are you raising this point here, now?

Edit: Clarification about which three posts I meant.