In a proper mini-chinese, D5 would be at C6, and, as such, black 9 is probably too far away from this stone. However, since I'm confident that my group in the lower left can live locally, I'm willing to take the risk.
Edit: Having given this a bit more thought as to QT's options:
Lower left: since he played away with white 8, I don't expect this.
Enclose lower right: I would expect a high enclosure at P4 since it seems more efficient than P3. However, this looks a little slow at this point of the game
Approach upper left at C15 or D15: He might want to break up the left side before I can enclose. However, I think I could get a good result on the top from this.
Splitting the top at K16, K17: I'm used to these being played out after black has already enclosed at C15, so I'm a little uncertain how they might play out. I can envision it going better for him in some scenarios and better for me in others.
Approaching upper right: O17 looks like it could give me a good result. If R14, I'll probably back off (not sure high or low) and QT can go into Kobayashi (I think)?
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:22 am
by EdLee
The local lower left corner shape appeared in a few pro games.
Black started at 3-3. Later, W approached with . Then, and .
Later, W attached with :
Dear Mr. Lee. I was put off by it because I was expecting a shoulder Tap at C4. I would guess because in my naivete everyone should play like I expect them to. The attachment while attacking, wasn't that a mistake or rule to never do? I thought you all mentioned it in the game b/t bgreico and I. Whatever the case, didn't expect it and really wanted to attack back. I chose not to, to improve my position on the bottom. Thank you for asking.
The attachment while attacking, wasn't that a mistake or rule to never do?
All Go proverbs are merely guidelines. Sometimes they apply; sometimes they don't.
The trick and difficult part is to judge when to do what. It depends on each situation.
There's almost never never in Go. Almost.
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:54 pm
by EdLee
quietimes wrote:I was expecting a shoulder Tap at C4.
So to be frank, I never know what to do in this situation. Do I follow my greed and attack at K16 or do I hit the side star point and build off my strength in the corner. Both have good and bad outcomes, none of which have ever really worked out for me. I will play a "safer move on the side with a full expectation that black will dominate the K point and give a good showing of owning the board at this early point. Please feel free to include hidden advice for me to read about this quandry at the end of the game.
Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu
Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:24 pm
by Phoenix
I notice both of these players misusing the word 'attack'. Both times, no attack was forthcoming. The bottom-left White stones are not under attack, as they are in no danger of dying. As EdLee pointed out, Black's contact play in this area strengthens both players' stones and forms a joseki. The idea behind Black's attachment is to take some of the corner territory for himself while securing his group.
White playing in the middle of the top side doesn't attack anything, but rather breaks up Black's future potential in that area. Since White has space to make a base in both directions, effectively splitting Black's stones (they will have trouble linking up in the future to form a framework), this is called a 'splitting move'.
So no attacks so far, as is normal in most opening scenarios. When one player takes potential eyespace away from the opponent and threatens to surround a group, that will be a proper attack.
Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:29 pm
by EdLee
Phoenix wrote:I notice both of these players misusing the word 'attack'.
Actually, it's like this:
~20k: ~20k understanding of attack & defense
~10k: ~10k understanding of attack & defense
~5k: ~5k understanding of attack & defense
low dans: low dan understanding of attack & defense
high dans: high dan understanding of attack & defense
pro: pro understanding of attack & defense
Like almost everything else in Go, attack & defense is not digital,
it's not either-or; it's not something they'll either "get" or "not get."
It's a continuum.
What they express is their current level of understanding.
Debated between this and playing at the top middle starpoint (either 3rd line or 4th) and I'm not certain if I made the right decision. I have guesses as to QT's next move, but so far my predictions have all been wrong.
edit: having thought about it some more, I think that playing at the starpoint or a small-knight enclosure at O17 would have been better. Live and learn.
Debated between this and playing at the top middle starpoint (either 3rd line or 4th) and I'm not certain if I made the right decision. I have guesses as to QT's next move, but so far my predictions have all been wrong.
edit: having thought about it some more, I think that playing at the starpoint or a small-knight enclosure at O17 would have been better. Live and learn.
There's nothing wrong with the one space enclosure vis-a-vis the small knight's enclosure in this situation, in my opinion. That said, the top side is bigger, as black already has the C11 stone in place to pressure white should white choose to approach the corner. That means that black can expect that fight to happen on the top of the left side, and so black should play on the top side to make the most territory through that fight, should it happen. The top side is also the widest place left on the board in the opening, so getting a stone their first helps black to get a better result there. It also works well with the top right stone. That said, black should be able to get a good pincer if white approaches the top right from the inside at O17 or so, and should be able to pressure a group that forms on the top decently because the top left is thick in this situation.
Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:43 am
by ikkyu
On a side note, I just got my copy of Opening Theory Made Easy in the mail. I've actually read through it twice, understanding a little bit more each time. However, the more recent time was over a year ago. I had access to a library with a fair number of Go books, but I'm losing that access next week, so I've been trying to buy the ones I liked most.
I expected a move on the top middle star point. Didn't happen. I may be missing something however I feel the best move here is to take up that point and begin some influence for a later time. I choose to take low lying fruit at this time.
Man, I love the go books however I don't know how to get better from them. Love reading them however it's like water thru a sieve. My next plan of attack is to read go books and play out on a board. See if that has more retention.
For once, I was actually right about the next move. I've often heard that it's "correct" to extend from your enclosure toward the splitting stone. But I've also heard that sometimes, this isn't the case and that it's better to extend from the 4-4. TBH, I don't have much experience with either. The one thing I did notice is that if I extended from my enclosure, my 4-4 stone could get real lonely real fast. If the Q10 stone wasn't there, I would have been much more willing to extend from the enclosure.
I debated between M17 and N17, but like my move at D5, I've decided to go against my instincts and play moves that are more bold. I've been told that one of my problems is that I play moves that are "too safe." As such, I want to try to break this mold somewhat.
?
in the game, this is another sequence:
. Then, 
and 
.
:
- 
exchange is good for W.