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Re: To 5 kyu in 5 months! (We'll see about that)

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:34 pm
by moyoaji
vpopovic wrote:GOOOOOONGGG!!!!!

Vladimir is [7k] :)

Congrats to Vladimir, but I can't let my newfound rival get ahead of me for too long. ;-) (How's the studying going, though? :study:)

I've been keeping up with watching go lectures on YouTube, but I haven't been doing go problems. (He's getting spoon-fed information instead of working through stuff on his own. :roll:)I know life and death is one of my weak points in go and I know I'll have to fix that if I want to get above my current rank. (He lost a game today because he couldn't read a basic life and death problem...) So, I have a new book on the way - Life and Death by Ishida and Davies - and I'm going to start looking at more life and death problems online. After I fix this sad aspect of my play, I should be a much stronger player. (As if life and death problems were the reason for all of your recent losses...) I've played some FlyOrDie games just for fun recently and their players are very aggressive, forcing many games to come down to life and death. The games I've lost on there have all been because of a misread in the life or death of a group. (Wait, this is really your key problem? :o)

As an SDK player, I generally don't like to admit that I'm bad at life and death because it seems so fundamental to go, but my play elsewhere has always made up for it and my opponents never really take advantage of it. (Except the ones that beat you because of it...) Usually I make such large groups that the question of "is it alive" isn't really a factor and the small groups I make in corners are almost always the result of joseki, meaning the life and death of them is either easy or already guaranteed. (So you've been playing "fake it 'til you make it" with your playing ability up to 8k... :lol: Not bad. )

Davies' book on Tesuji has been good to me. Let's hope Life and Death will prove to be equally as helpful in improving my skills. (Still want to be spoon-fed success. Can I become the internal critic of someone who is willing to put in work?)

Bill Spight wrote:W205 at T-03 would prevent seki.

I'm pretty sure black's group is just dead. It has 1 eye and a false eye. All I have to do is fill in the last outside liberty, take the ko, and then I kill the whole group. (If you meant at that moment. Yes, black could have made it seki, but he never did. Instead he later killed his own group...)

EDIT: After a few games today, I barely hit 7k (for a couple hours until it went back to 8k), as with 8k I'm going to win at least a couple of games at that rank before stating it in the main post. Stating it before that would seem premature. I should get in some games tomorrow, so maybe... http://www.gokgs.com/graphPage.jsp?user=moyoaji

Re: To 5 kyu in 5 months! (We'll see about that)

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:23 pm
by moyoaji
I won another game today, so I'm officially 7k according to the KGS. I'll need to win one more before I make it official here. (He doesn't want to post about it "prematurely" as if anyone is going to care if he falls right back to 8k..)

I played some more games with a friend of mine - who I have successful moved to 3 stones against me - and then decided to read some from "Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go." (Oh good, I was worried you forgot your books existed.) I finished up the first chapter and Kageyama went on something of a rant at the end.

Here is what he had to say:

The reason so many people never master this elementary skill [of nets and ladders] is that they keep ignoring it as being beneath them. They are the people who cannot be bothered to 'read'; who try to capture the uncapturable group because it just looks as if it can be done or because they can muddle through somehow, and so they rush headlong into disaster. They are also the people who, when they face a slightly stronger opponent, do not try to capture the capturable group because with their fuzzy reading they are afraid of messing it up; who innocently add unnecessary stones to their own already alive groups; who take fright without cause; who tremble when they sit down at the go board; who play through the whole game with a sullen expression; who lose every fight; who eventually come to hate go. Sorry wretches, through choice they have abandoned the most interesting and enjoyable of all games.

- Kageyama Toshiro 7-dan, Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go

I must never become one of these people. (Well, I think he must have been talking about someone else. :roll:) However, I had to admit that I've had one of these moments recently.

When I was trying to read "The Second Book of Go" I thought "I know all of this stuff already... I can't learn anything from this, so why read it?" (It was dragging on about basic joseki... I had already zoned out before moyo did.) I feel I was getting a lot more out of Fundamentals. (Yeah, because it wasn't written for 20 kyus.) Even so, I'm going to go back to the Second Book of Go. (What?!?! :shock:)

Kageyama was a wise man, and I don't want to waste the wisdom he imparted here. If I were to toss aside a beginner's book as being beneath me and just read the rest of Fundamentals I would be missing the point of the whole book. (But it was so boring!) Whether I'm an SDK player, a DDK player, or a dan player, nothing in go is beneath me. I need to constantly have a grasp of the basics if I want to play go at a consistent strength. (Second Book of Go is going to be a looong read. :study:)

Re: To 5 kyu in 5 months! (We'll see about that)

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:43 pm
by paK0
moyoaji wrote:
I played some more games with a friend of mine - who I have successful moved to 3 stones against me - and then decided to read some from "Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go." (Oh good, I was worried you forgot your books existed.) I finished up the first chapter and Kageyama went on something of a rant at the end.



I skipped through parts of the book before, there will be a lot more of those, the book kinda makes you feel like the author will come to murder you in your sleep if he ever sees one of your games that is played anything but perfect.

Re: To 5 kyu in 5 months! (We'll see about that)

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:09 pm
by moyoaji
paK0 wrote:I skipped through parts of the book before, there will be a lot more of those, the book kinda makes you feel like the author will come to murder you in your sleep if he ever sees one of your games that is played anything but perfect.

I don't mind the rants. For one thing, I know I'm not that good at go. However, I also don't think Kageyama is actually that upset. He is simply trying to get his point across in a memorable way. His exchange with Yamabe Toshiro 9p earlier in the chapter shows something of Kageyama's character. What he says there after explaining how Yamabe disliked his go shows great humility.

Now that I set these words down on paper and reread them, they sound almost insulting, so let me make it clear that for the sake of the art, strong and outspoken language, which makes a deep impression, is most welcome. Even though there may have been an element of insult present, the hearer definitely did not feel insulted. - Lessons, p. 25

Re: To 5 kyu in 5 months! (We'll see about that)

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:07 pm
by moyoaji
Okay, I'm making my 7 kyuness official. (It took you this long to get in a couple of games?) I won my most recent game because I solved a few life and death problems! :) (Or because your opponent ignored his biggest weakness for 50 moves... but sure.) So my studies have not been fruitless and now I'm just a tiny bit better at life and death. (Emphasis on "tiny" :lol:)

Here is the game:


So far I am making good progress toward 5 kyu. (Yeah, you're actually doing better than I expecting considering how long your go was stagnant before your studies. I'll give you that one. :tmbup:) It looks like I'll easily make my goal of 5 months and then I can move on to (Please don't say it...) shodan! ( :tmbdown: )

Re: To 5 kyu in 5 months! (We'll see about that)

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:41 pm
by billywoods
Convincingly won. Nicely done. :)

Re: To 5 kyu in 5 months! (We'll see about that)

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:22 pm
by Bill Spight
moyoaji wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:W205 at T-03 would prevent seki.

I'm pretty sure black's group is just dead. It has 1 eye and a false eye. All I have to do is fill in the last outside liberty, take the ko, and then I kill the whole group. (If you meant at that moment. Yes, black could have made it seki, but he never did. Instead he later killed his own group...)


Plainly you don't know what I was talking about.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Black makes seki
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X X . . . X . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . X X . X . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . . . X X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O X X O O . . . O O O O . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O O . . . . . . . . X O |
$$ | . X O . O . O . . . . . . X O O X X O |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . O O , . . X O X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X O O O O O . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O X O . . . O . O X . X |
$$ | . . . X X X O O X X O O . O . O X O O |
$$ | . . X . O O X O X X X O . . O O X X 1 |
$$ | . . . . . O X O X O O O O O X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O X X X O . X X X X X X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X X O . X O O X O O X |
$$ | . . . . X X O . X O . O X O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White kills
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X X . . . X . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . X X . X . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . . . X X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O O X X . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O X X O O . . . O O O O . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O O . . . . . . . . X O |
$$ | . X O . O . O . . . . . . X O O X X O |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . O O , . . X O X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X O O O O O . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O X O . . . O . O X . X |
$$ | . . . X X X O O X X O O . O . O X O O |
$$ | . . X . O O X O X X X O . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O X O O O O O X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O X X X O . X X X X X X X 1 |
$$ | . . . . X O O . X X O . X O O X O O X |
$$ | . . . . X X O . X O . O X O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Yes, that's T-04 instead of T-03. Typo.

Re: To 5 kyu in 5 months! (We'll see about that)

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:27 pm
by moyoaji
I have made it to 6 kyu. (So you're doing about a rank a month... I guess that fits with your goal.)

Ordinarily I would play a few more games, but I have been playing an AGA 5k at my local go club recently and we've been trading games back and forth so I think it's fair to say I'm a 6k even if I've only just gotten the rank on KGS, especially considering the margin of victory in my last game. (That's sort of cheating, but I guess that can slide considering you basically only play at your club. Now, what was that rule about playing multiple games a week on the KGS in order to get stronger... the one in the first post...)

Before I move on from that game, however, I would like to know from someone better at life and death (I'm better than I was, but still not great) if white could have killed my lower left corner with a different move at 110. (Clearly too lazy to read out all the variations...)



One rank away from my goal now... I will make sure I play at least 3 games at 5k and go at least 2-1 before making my 5k rank official and considering this portion of my go studies finished. (And then onto 1 dan, right?) Then, it's on to shodan! ( :scratch: )

Re: To 5 kyu in 5 months! (We'll see about that)

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:38 pm
by jts
Good game. 23 is a good pattern to know ("add a stone [to get two liberties] and sacrifice both") but in situations against the edge of the board like this, B will often wait for a bit before removing this aji, because b18 c18 a17, connecting under, is good yose.

Re: To 5 kyu in 5 months! (We'll see about that)

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:43 pm
by aconley
moyoaji wrote:Before I move on from that game, however, I would like to know from someone better at life and death (I'm better than I was, but still not great) if white could have killed my lower left corner with a different move at 110. (Clearly too lazy to read out all the variations...)


In isolation that shape can be killed by White playing at B4. But here Black has threats to escape to the outside (which I think don't work, but it could get messy). If White ever seals off the bottom though, it can be killed cleanly.

See: http://senseis.xmp.net/?J1Group#diag8

Re: To 5 kyu in 5 months! (We'll see about that)

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:44 pm
by skydyr
In the bottom left, when white descended to the edge of the board, that was sente against the group. The correct attack point is at the 1-2 point.

You can find a description of the whole situation here: http://senseis.xmp.net/?J1Group

EDIT: Apparently I was beaten to the punch.

Re: To 5 kyu in 5 months! (We'll see about that)

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:42 pm
by moyoaji
Hey guys,

So I'm not dead, just busy with school. ( Welcome back, obviously everyone here has been waiting with bated breath for your next post :salute:)

I was able to get in a KGS game last night. I now have a question mark after my rank so I know I need to play more games. (The question mark was what told you that?) I've still been playing at my local go clubs, now I'm back at my university's club. Sadly I only have 1 other player I can play regularly there now, but one of the players from the other club has been coming to those meetings occasionally so I still have another opponent. (Playing two guys that are weaker than you should really help you improve fast.)

I'll post the game from last night, but I feel like it was a free win. My opponent let me kill him in sente several times and his opening was pretty slow. (moyoaji's just lucky that he got an easy game for his first game back on the KGS.) My only real question is whether I should have played move 13 at K4/K3 instead of enclosing my corner and how to respond to white's unusual corner invasion at moves 14-18.

So here it is.


I'm now [5k?] after that game, but I don't feel that's really 5k. If and when the question mark goes away I can call myself 5k and say that this journal and part of my go career is complete. (You've got a month and a half to get on this, otherwise I'm still calling this a failure. Also, career? Really? :lol:)

Hopefully I can find more time to post and play online in the coming weeks. (Yep, definitely put school on the back burner. Heaven forbid that takes priority over games. :roll:)

Re: To 5 kyu in 5 months! (We'll see about that)

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:21 pm
by Boidhre
I like playing on the bottom with :b13: actually. It's rather big and makes any approach towards your bottom 3-4 very painful for white. You don't mind losing the corner in the top right so much I think.

Maybe wrong, maybe right.

Re: To 5 kyu in 5 months! (We'll see about that)

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:56 pm
by Unusedname
:b15: I think this should definitely be a kick.

This would avoid the white corner invasion altogether.

And it's the ideal position to kick.

but as for the corner invasion I think

:b19: R16 is a better move. Even if white tries to jump away at R13 you can leave him with a very weak group.

Re: To 5 kyu in 5 months! (We'll see about that)

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:08 am
by rouyakun
:b15: yeah a kick looks good. and :b19: R16 is playable so you don't get to the normal 3-3 invasion pattern since white played keima first instead of hane. And also if you block :b21: at Q18 white isn't alive yet, I think he could have :w20: hane at Q18 first getting back to the normal invasion pattern of 3-3 instead of R18 which gives him smaller space and leaving his outside stone unused. In the game it seems he got way to much from his invasion although black got thick, but could have saved part of top too. Q14 is far from R8 so black is open if it was closer at R9 then there would be narrower space. And since R8 1 space closer than if it were the chinese opening, you could probably kick (or reverse kick/shoulder hit) Q5 :w30: at R4 for :b31: . If white blocks, he becomes heavy and no base so he has to play light. And also :b35: P2 should definitely be at S2 since you have R8 very close so white doesn't get a base so easily. P2 is too easy for white and doesn't use much black's stone advantage at R8. In the end white made too many weak groups (idk why) so he lost.