Life In 19x19

Do you have some special plans for the people who have to stay at home but would like to take part? I'm thinking of a live relay of the first board(s) on KGS / EuroGoTV, up-to-date information (pairing, results, etc.), photos, and that kind of stuff.
I'm interested in all that because I'd love to be there, too, but I have to do an internship over the summer holidays and can't participate..

Nonetheless I wish all of the participants a great time at the EGC 2010 and hope for the organizers that everything will go smoothly!

Ember wrote:Do you have some special plans for the people who have to stay at home but would like to take part? I'm thinking of a live relay of the first board(s) on KGS / EuroGoTV, up-to-date information (pairing, results, etc.), photos, and that kind of stuff.
I'm interested in all that because I'd love to be there, too, but I have to do an internship over the summer holidays and can't participate..

Nonetheless I wish all of the participants a great time at the EGC 2010 and hope for the organizers that everything will go smoothly!

Usually you can see things you mentioned on KGS and EGC website.
I also heard, they will publish EGC magazines with commented games, interviews etc and will make them available on EGC website

Ember wrote:Do you have some special plans for the people who have to stay at home but would like to take part? I'm thinking of a live relay of the first board(s) on KGS / EuroGoTV, up-to-date information (pairing, results, etc.), photos, and that kind of stuff.

We'll have EuroGoTV broadcasts for the first two boards of the Main Tournament. Check out the schedule and follow http://eurogotv.com and KGS and/or PandaNet.

Also, I promise the results update every evening, cannot say how early though :) About the photos, we don't have a good plan yet but maybe something will happen on the visual sector as well.

Cheers,
Vesa

breakfast wrote:Usually you can see things you mentioned on KGS and EGC website.
I also heard, they will publish EGC magazines with commented games, interviews etc and will make them available on EGC website

Hi Breakfast,

thanks for posting, that's great news! I loved the EGC magazine last year and I really do hope there will be one this year, too!

Vesa wrote:We'll have EuroGoTV broadcasts for the first two boards of the Main Tournament. Check out the schedule and follow http://eurogotv.com and KGS and/or PandaNet.

Also, I promise the results update every evening, cannot say how early though About the photos, we don't have a good plan yet but maybe something will happen on the visual sector as well.

Cheers,
Vesa

Hi Vesa,

thanks for your reply! Of course I know you can't say when you can update all the results, once a day is ok, you surely have a lot more things to do than that.
I saw you have a twitter account for the EGC. Do you think that maybe the results of the top 5 or so boards could be updated quickly after games are over in this way? ^^;

I'll keep my fingers crossed for some photos, maybe even such a nice galery as was done for the congress in Groningen last year.

Greetings from Germany!

Greetings. Here is a screenshot of the results today up to the 36th place (5 rounds have been played). Could someone please offer a key to reading this chart?
What is MMS?
What is SOS?
What do the numbers followed by a + or - sign mean?
Is it possible to discern from this table who played whom?
If not, is there somewhere where one could see the actual results (for example: White: Ilia Shikshin (7d)- Black: Kyeong-nang Kang (7d) W+R)?




Thanks in advance for the clarification.

BTW, is this the way it's always done, and am I the only one who finds this table baffling?

daal wrote:...

Thanks in advance for the clarification.

BTW, is this the way it's always done, and am I the only one who finds this table baffling?

This seems like a pretty normal result sheet. I was confused the first time I saw one, too. The + and - signs should indicate who the player won and lost against. So, for example, when it says that "Shikshin, Ilya" had 10+ for his first game, it means that he won against player #10 - "Tormanen, Antti" (plus the dots for the special characters).

The MMS is the score that you obtained from your results. That's why the player with the highest MMS won the game - it determines placement.

The SOS is the sum of opponent scores, which is one method of breaking ties. You can see that players 2 through 8 all had an MMS of 28. The way that placement was determined was by ranking by the sum of opponent scores - the SOS.

P.S. In many tournaments, I don't think they keep track of how a player won (resignation, by 15 points, by 100 points). Nothing really matters but the result of the game.

daal wrote:Greetings. Here is a screenshot of the results today up to the 36th place (5 rounds have been played). Could someone please offer a key to reading this chart?
What is MMS?
What is SOS?
What do the numbers followed by a + or - sign mean?
Is it possible to discern from this table who played whom?
If not, is there somewhere where one could see the actual results (for example: White: Ilia Shikshin (7d)- Black: Kyeong-nang Kang (7d) W+R)?




Thanks in advance for the clarification.

BTW, is this the way it's always done, and am I the only one who finds this table baffling?

This is the way it is usually done

MMS = McMahon Score. Each player is given an initial MMS based on their rank (20k = 0, 19k = 1, 18k = 2, ... , 1d = 20, 2d = 21, 3d = 22, 4d = 23). The for each round they win, they get an additional point.

SOS = Sum of Opponent Scores = An indication how strong your opponents were, therefore how hard it was to reach your current score.

The numbers followed by a plus or minus sign are an opponent identifier followed by a result. So 54+ means that someone played against player 54 (i.e. the player who is currently 54th in the list) and that they won (54- would mean they lost).

So with the above, it is possible to discern who played whom, In the current list, in the 5th round, Ilya has 2+ and 2 = Kang Kyeong nang, so that tells you Ilya beat Kang in the 5th round.

Thanks Kirby and Herman.

HermanHiddema wrote:
This is the way it is usually done

MMS = McMahon Score. Each player is given an initial MMS based on their rank (20k = 0, 19k = 1, 18k = 2, ... , 1d = 20, 2d = 21, 3d = 22, 4d = 23). The for each round they win, they get an additional point.

I'm almost there, but ... does everyone over 4d start with 23? If so, how did Ilia get to 29? If not, How did Ilia get to 29?

The numbers followed by a plus or minus sign are an opponent identifier followed by a result. So 54+ means that someone played against player 54 (i.e. the player who is currently 54th in the list) and that they won (54- would mean they lost).

So with the above, it is possible to discern who played whom, In the current list, in the 5th round, Ilya has 2+ and 2 = Kang Kyeong nang, so that tells you Ilya beat Kang in the 5th round.

Ah. This is interesting. It means that the entire table has to be recalculated after every round to reflect everyone's change in position. What a mammoth task. Was this done the same way before the advent of the compter era?

daal wrote:...

I'm almost there, but ... does everyone over 4d start with 23? If so, how did Ilia get to 29? If not, How did Ilia get to 29?

I am not an MMS expert, but I believe that this is due to the way that the "upper bar" was set. Basically, all ranks that they believe have a shot at winning the tournament will have the same initial set of points.

For a particular tournament, you might set the bar at 4d. That means that 4d, 5d, 6d, and 7d will all get the same number of points - 23. It looks to be the case that, for this tournament, the bar was set at 5d. This means that 4d still gets 23 initial points, but 5d, 6d, and 7d all get 24.

I think that it is up to the tournament organizers to determine where they should set the bar.

daal wrote:I'm almost there, but ... does everyone over 4d start with 23? If so, how did Ilia get to 29? If not, How did Ilia get to 29?

32 top players were selected to start with 24. So Ilya started with 24+5wins = 29. See many other threads here about the politics of how they decide who is selected.

How is the SOS of someone who absents some games generated? i.e. Thomas Debarre was absent from the first game, and his SOS is still 126 sum of five games.

kokomi wrote:How is the SOS of someone who absents some games generated? i.e. Thomas Debarre was absent from the first game, and his SOS is still 126 sum of five games.

Not 100% sure but I think it adds the players own mms to sos for games not played.

daal wrote:... It means that the entire table has to be recalculated after every round to reflect everyone's change in position. What a mammoth task. Was this done the same way before the advent of the compter era?

No, it doesn't have to be done that way. The players can be tracked by at least two different numbering systems: their final rank, or their initial number ( probably ordered by strength before the tournament starts ). All pairings and other mid-tournament postings refer to them by their initial numbers. Then at the end of the tournament the table is redone once.

If you take a "bye" (skip out for a round), it's a double edged sword. On one hand, you don't get a loss, so your MMS can be the same as somebody that won that round.

On the other hand, though, since you didn't play anybody, your SOS is hurt. You have one less opponent to go into the sum of your opponent's scores. So in the event of a tie, you will be at a disadvantage.

I believe this is how it works, at least.

Kirby wrote:If you take a "bye" (skip out for a round), it's a double edged sword. On one hand, you don't get a loss, so your MMS can be the same as somebody that won that round.

I'm not sure how things are done in Europe, but in the US there are two types of byes: forced and unforced. Forced byes happen when there are an odd number of players in the field and someone has to sit out. In that case the bye counts as a win (because that person would play if they could and shouldn't be disadvantaged). An unforced bye occurs when you want to take the round off. Unforced byes count as a loss.

To answer the previous question about how SOS is calculated for players involved in a bye, it is usual (in North America at least) to count the bye as a win/loss against a phantom player who starts off with the same initial score and who wins exactly half of his games. So for Thomas Debarre, it would be someone who was the same rank as Thomas and who has a current score of 2.5 out of five games.