Life In 19x19

Well I was disappointed to learn that I just brushed you off. I read your complaint in private message and responded to it, I believed that I actually responded quite positively to your complaint. Despite the niceness of having the jubango on KGS, I was busy with other things and wasn't paying much attention at all to the game or the server. It does surprise me then to learn that you persisting in argueing with other admins until you received a ban, and that you then logged in again with another account to continue to argue the same point.

On a broader note, it is important to KGS that we first verify any broadcast links are correct if we want to keep a broadcast on the server in future. Therefore you shouldn't be surprised to see a sort of knee jerk admin response to a link on youtube. If the link is actually fine, it's probably best to just explain that calmly, and wait for the admins in question to verify that. I don't really see what could go wrong there.

daal wrote:...

this feels like a lot of nitpicking. i was merely trying to give my thought process at the time, i didnt necessarily say a lot of those things you complained about to them. but what you are basically saying is because of a history, i should have been banned unfairly and treated like that by people who try to say theyre professional?

Javaness2 wrote:Well I was disappointed to learn that I just brushed you off. I read your complaint in private message and responded to it, I believed that I actually responded quite positively to your complaint. Despite the niceness of having the jubango on KGS, I was busy with other things and wasn't paying much attention at all to the game or the server. It does surprise me then to learn that you persisting in argueing with other admins until you received a ban, and that you then logged in again with another account to continue to argue the same point.

On a broader note, it is important to KGS that we first verify any broadcast links are correct if we want to keep a broadcast on the server in future. Therefore you shouldn't be surprised to see a sort of knee jerk admin response to a link on youtube. If the link is actually fine, it's probably best to just explain that calmly, and wait for the admins in question to verify that. I don't really see what could go wrong there.

i did discuss it with you and when i made the claim that the link was fine, you just said "okay" and then nothing changed after that.

the issue was that nyanjilla did not listen to us at all. even though daal said it was an exaggeration, there was not only "2-3 people". i would say no less than 6 people were talking to nyan about it. she appeared to make no attempt to verify our claims that the link was legit and said "youtube is not an authorized broadcaster" probably 3-4 times and continued to give us reasons why the link was illegal when it wasnt.

xDragon wrote: but what you are basically saying is because of a history, i should have been banned unfairly and treated like that by people who try to say theyre professional?

No, I don't think that you should be banned unfairly - it's just that it makes sense that it happened.

daal wrote:

xDragon wrote: but what you are basically saying is because of a history, i should have been banned unfairly and treated like that by people who try to say theyre professional?

No, I don't think that you should be banned unfairly - it's just that it makes sense that it happened.

but that would imply that youre bring emotion and bias into these decisions when it doesnt call for it. thats not behavior an admin should use when making such a decision

xDragon wrote:the issue was that nyanjilla did not listen to us at all.

I did listen. That was why I was trying to search various sites for any information about whether or not YouTube was authorized as a place for relaying the BadukTV stream, while keeping an eye on the chat in several places and typing responses where I thought they were needed. A real click-fest. And admittedly my responses were terse because I wanted to sort out this detail as quickly as possible.

Yes, I could have dropped everything and concentrated on addressing each and every one of your concerns without any information to back up my words, but at the time I decided it was more important to find out whether the YouTube link had been authorized by the sponsors. I am sorry if that gave you the impression I was not listening.

Nyanjilla wrote:

xDragon wrote:the issue was that nyanjilla did not listen to us at all.

I did listen. That was why I was trying to search various sites for any information about whether or not YouTube was authorized as a place for relaying the BadukTV stream, while keeping an eye on the chat in several places and typing responses where I thought they were needed. A real click-fest. And admittedly my responses were terse because I wanted to sort out this detail as quickly as possible.

Yes, I could have dropped everything and concentrated on addressing each and every one of your concerns without any information to back up my words, but at the time I decided it was more important to find out whether the YouTube link had been authorized by the sponsors. I am sorry if that gave you the impression I was not listening.

but would it not be logical to think that if baduktv was streaming it on youtube, that it would be fine? especially since you said later that baduktv was allowed to broadcast it. you did keep saying that "anyone could have uploaded it" but it was on baduktv's youtube channel...

you also did take a lot of time trying to defend yourself using the same arguments over and over again.

xDragon wrote:

daal wrote:

xDragon wrote: but what you are basically saying is because of a history, i should have been banned unfairly and treated like that by people who try to say theyre professional?

No, I don't think that you should be banned unfairly - it's just that it makes sense that it happened.

but that would imply that youre bring emotion and bias into these decisions when it doesnt call for it. thats not behavior an admin should use when making such a decision

Why not? These people are volunteers, they are under pressure to make sure the server is running well, no laws are being broken and that everybody is having a good time, and then when someone comes along and gets all under their skin, telling them how wrong they are and how right he is, badgering them and bugging them* then emotions start figuring into the mix. I understand that you think they should be only making rational decisions, but you should understand that you make it really difficult for them to do so.

*Nice example above btw., where you berate Nanjilla for an absence of logic by making the questionable assumption that its immediately obvious to anyone whether something on youtube is legit or not.

daal wrote:Why not? These people are volunteers, they are under pressure to make sure the server is running well, no laws are being broken and that everybody is having a good time, and then when someone comes along and gets all under their skin, telling them how wrong they are and how right he is, badgering them and bugging them* then emotions start figuring into the mix. I understand that you think they should be only making rational decisions, but you should understand that you make it really difficult for them to do so.

*Nice example above btw., where you berate Nanjilla for an absence of logic by making the questionable assumption that its immediately obvious to anyone whether something on youtube is legit or not.

well, bad admins do make rash and emotional decisions like that. as a user, you shouldnt be defending that behavior

The admins were 1) factually incorrect about the legality of the stream (and too obtuse to understand); 2) banned the user after posting the second link even though an admin actually demanded a clickable link; 3) responded unprofessionally to a customer inquiry; 4) changed their explanation of why the link was bad; 5) refused to answer the simple question "why was I banned".

Okay. That's more than enough info for me to steer newbies away from KGS. I assume that the reason I haven't seen this ugly side of KGS is because I just play auto-match games.

Things like this are why people are moving on from KGS. Unfortunately they aren't going to another server, just leaving go entirely. Go in the west isn't exactly strong so I don't get why people can't figure out that berating each other is not going to help. There are always going to be crazy users though, so its not good that the admins can't hold to a higher standard. Sending multiple <CLICK DELETE BUTTON> emails is pretty shameful.

The silver lining is that I was looking for this game on J-TV and couldn't find it, so it will be nice to have some video to watch along with

Hmmm, the reason why admins asked people not to advertize those links was not about the "one ad per day" rule.
Actually, it was a matter of sponsor. MyungWan had the authorization by the KBA to relay the game live on the server he wanted to. He chose KGS (enjoy). Actually, MyungWann himself, asked people to stop advertizing the youtube links.

Why ? Because youtube was not one of the mediums that he and KBA agreed upon to relay the game. Sponsors can pay very large sums to have the monopole of relaying a game on this or that server. If KGS admins had allowed those links to be shared dozens of times the night, we had no idea how the sponsors would react (probably bad). So, for matters of respect, we can't let people advertize other links than the medium /media chose by the relayer himself or the association he is in behalf of. Secondly, if the sponsors were to know that we had allowed those, they certainly wouldn't allow KGS to relay the next 9 rounds - which is yet to be confirmed.


CGBSpender

cgbspender wrote:Hmmm, the reason why admins asked people not to advertize those links was not about the "one ad per day" rule.
Actually, it was a matter of sponsor. MyungWan had the authorization by the KBA to relay the game live on the server he wanted to. He chose KGS (enjoy). Actually, MyungWann himself, asked people to stop advertizing the youtube links.

Why ? Because youtube was not one of the mediums that he and KBA agreed upon to relay the game. Sponsors can pay very large sums to have the monopole of relaying a game on this or that server. If KGS admins had allowed those links to be shared dozens of times the night, we had no idea how the sponsors would react (probably bad). So, for matters of respect, we can't let people advertize other links than the medium /media chose by the relayer himself or the association he is in behalf of. Secondly, if the sponsors were to know that we had allowed those, they certainly wouldn't allow KGS to relay the next 9 rounds - which is yet to be confirmed.


CGBSpender

it still doesnt make a lot of sense because it was the exact same stream as the one she allowed (baduktv), hosted by the exact same company, and that this issue happened in the usgo1, not in the myungwan one. the original issue probably would have died down had we been told that myungwan didnt want the youtube link posted. instead nyan was being vague about it and kept repeating herself.

it also does not bring up the issue of why i was banned and why the admins acted like they did

cgbspender wrote:Hmmm, the reason why admins asked people not to advertize those links was not about the "one ad per day" rule.
Actually, it was a matter of sponsor. MyungWan had the authorization by the KBA to relay the game live on the server he wanted to. He chose KGS (enjoy). Actually, MyungWann himself, asked people to stop advertizing the youtube links.

Why ? Because youtube was not one of the mediums that he and KBA agreed upon to relay the game. Sponsors can pay very large sums to have the monopole of relaying a game on this or that server. If KGS admins had allowed those links to be shared dozens of times the night, we had no idea how the sponsors would react (probably bad). So, for matters of respect, we can't let people advertize other links than the medium /media chose by the relayer himself or the association he is in behalf of. Secondly, if the sponsors were to know that we had allowed those, they certainly wouldn't allow KGS to relay the next 9 rounds - which is yet to be confirmed.


CGBSpender

Yeah I'm sure giant mountains of cash changed hands so that the game could be shown to a few hundred people on KGS.

When money comes into play then that's all it's about wanting money, who's making the most who can get the most, me, me me... and in the end it screws up the person and the sport.
-- Alexis Arguello

This thread is so amusing. It's like being on KGS again. LOL Why do you fight these losing battles xDragon? Don't you realise that things will never change on KGS?