Black has no eye in the corner, but has four connection points (marked). One of these points is special. Which one is it, and why?
| Life In 19x19 http://lifein19x19.com/ |
|
| SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=977 |
Page 16 of 23 |
| Author: | SoDesuNe [ Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan |
RBerenguel wrote: I have a shogi board, "The Art of Shogi" and even a computer opponent on my iPad (and a tsumeshogi app on my old iPod touch.) But man, the game is "hard." Hard to see anything, hard to follow the opening patterns. It's been almost 2 years on hold, because I don't have that much free time and I try to focus in "just one board game," so no tsumeshogi, no hex, I just to tsumego and the like, at least for the time being :) I'd be glad to read your shogi endeavours too here! (btw, there's a subreddit for shogi, but it's 99% dead.) I ordered "Shogi for Beginners" (from John Fairbairn, who could have guessed ; ) ) and "Joseki at a Glance" (Josekis are openings, like in chess, if I'm not mistaken), those two should - hopefully - bring me to a level where I don't lose against the weakest bot on 81dojo.com ^^ I feel that Josekis in Shogi are even more important than openings in chess. Because of the move-peculiarities of the Shogi pieces (quite a few of them can't move backwards), you have to be really careful where to move them. I attended a Shogi event with two professional Shogi players (and got to play one of them - yay!) and the strongest amateur player there (a 2-dan) played a show match against one of them. Essentially he lost because he moved his King in the attack line of his opponent's Joseki, which he didn't know. Later on the pro gave him a book he had written, where he explains this Joseki ^^ (Sadly it's all in Japanese.) Another strong player (got awarded a 5-dan diploma in his prime but stopped playing) told me, when I understand everything what's in "Shogi for Beginners" I could be already Shodan ^^ Then I do a lot of one- and three-move Tsumeshogi with Anki, thanks to you ; ) The internet is so kind as to present me around 100 one-move- and almost 900 three-move-problems (no scans or such as far as I'm aware). I finished the one-move-problems three times by now and solved a quarter of the three-move ones. By the way for those of you who know chess: three-move-problems actually mean three moves in total, this would be a mate in two in chess. A five-move-problem in Shogi is a mate in three in chess. As with Go I'm more the study type and play less. Once a week I play a couple of games with a friend and occasionally I play against a Hamster (http://www.hozo.biz/shogi/) : D Sadly the handicap system is completely weird in Hamster-Shogi (it doesn't follow the usual pattern), so I can't learn proper handicap Josekis and such. So much for my Shogi endeavours =D |
|
| Author: | SoDesuNe [ Fri May 01, 2015 8:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan |
Uh, it started again. After some Shogi and some serious chess (slowly but surely I have as many chess books as I have Go books...), I'm back to Go. Even dusted my Goban from the cellar this day and replayed a Go Seigen game ("Final Summit" - Game 1). Trying to get into a Tsumego routine, too - GGPfB as of now (rusty, rusty ^^"). On KGS I'm at 1-kyu again, but I mostly lose against human players and only my wins against bots help me keep this rank. On the other side I'm a mighty strong 1-dan on Tygem, so I'm satisfied with this feeling of fake accomplishment ; ) So far~ |
|
| Author: | SoDesuNe [ Thu May 07, 2015 12:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan |
Since RBerenguel posted his approach of doing Tsumego via a SRS (i.e. Anki: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10416), I wanted to test that myself. I already did so with Shogi and chess problems and now I started transcribing Go problems, too. I finished the first two volumes of GGPfB a couple of days ago and even managed to get a few problems wrong (careless, careless me). Started the third volume today and generally aim to do 50 new problems a day (plus whatever I have to review). The plan for now is to complete the whole series (completion means repeating the cards/problems until they become "old" in Anki) and then go heavy on Tesuji problems since my main weakness is still the middlegame and fighting. This probably includes Tesuji, Get Strong at Tesuji and the Yi Ch'ang-Ho Tesuji series - we'll see when I get there. Regarding "Final Summit": I replayed the 7th game today; easily one of my favourite games in this series. Go Seigen makes winning look so easy. After that I will test my own advice and start replaying Go Seigen's complete legacy. I took the compilation logan kindly put together and plan to quickly go over up to ten games a day. That's something I would like to do anyway, realisticly it seems three games a day would already be great - time-wise. I also wanted to post a 5H-game I played against a 4-5d recently but I forgot the right order of moves in a lot of situations : ( Suffice to say, he got the better of me and by the start of the endgame we were roughly even in points. Aside from maybe playing too solidly, I also missed the bigger picture once and defended incorrectly against a probe - cost me quite some points since some cut-off stones could now connect to a weak-ish group of his, making life for both. The game was quite comfortable for White then. Still happy with the game since I didn't get demolished from start to finish : ) |
|
| Author: | SoDesuNe [ Tue May 12, 2015 11:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan |
This one took waaaaay too long... |
|
| Author: | SoDesuNe [ Thu May 14, 2015 1:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan |
I'm still uber bad when it comes to unorthodox play. After the overplay in the top-right it all went south. Funny though, that in the moment I cut, I realized he just needed to extend and I was in trouble. I guess, I should have tried to live in the center later on, but I couldn't see any good moves. Unorthodox play really throws me off. (Yes, I could have captured the group at the bottom.) Luckily I won two games on Tygem after that. Faith restored. Tomorrow I'll finish GGPfB vol. 3 and will start the last one. |
|
| Author: | SoDesuNe [ Fri May 15, 2015 7:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan |
What d'you do, when you lose some 40 points in a Ko fight? You just kill a quarter of the board and force your opponent to resign. |
|
| Author: | Kirby [ Fri May 15, 2015 10:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan |
SoDesuNe wrote: |
|
| Author: | Bill Spight [ Fri May 15, 2015 11:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan |
Black has no eye in the corner, but has four connection points (marked). One of these points is special. Which one is it, and why?
|
|
| Author: | SoDesuNe [ Sat May 16, 2015 2:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan |
Kirby wrote: Bill Spight wrote: Black has no eye in the corner, but has four connection points (marked). One of these points is special. Which one is it, and why? :) It's astonishing by the way how fast my reading skill kinda vaporised. I do so badly at GGPfB vol 4, I think I'm doing even worse than I was when being around 3-kyu :o It's a good thing though that experience almost makes it up. Especially against weaker players. |
|
| Author: | Bill Spight [ Sat May 16, 2015 7:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan |
SoDesuNe wrote: Bill Spight wrote: Black has no eye in the corner, but has four connection points (marked). One of these points is special. Which one is it, and why? |
|
| Author: | ez4u [ Sat May 16, 2015 8:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan |
Bill Spight wrote: SoDesuNe wrote: Bill Spight wrote: Black has no eye in the corner, but has four connection points (marked). One of these points is special. Which one is it, and why? Now, now Senbei. SDN has correctly identified the essentials of the position even if the wording could be more precise. No taunting now!
|
|
| Author: | Kirby [ Sat May 16, 2015 9:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan |
Still an interesting question about the four marked points: why. I don't have an answer myself, except that I verified it works. Why does it work? That's a tough question. |
|
| Author: | Bill Spight [ Sat May 16, 2015 9:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan |
ez4u wrote: SoDesuNe wrote: Bill Spight wrote: Black has no eye in the corner, but has four connection points (marked). One of these points is special. Which one is it, and why? Bill Spight wrote: Now, now Senbei. SDN has correctly identified the essentials of the position even if the wording could be more precise. No taunting now! Aniki, Black has no eye, which is why he needs to connect. The point is not about making an eye or preventing an eye. |
|
| Author: | SoDesuNe [ Sat May 16, 2015 12:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan |
| Author: | Bill Spight [ Sat May 16, 2015 12:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan |
Bravo, SoDesuNe, bravo!  Succinctly The reason that I think that that is an important point is that it is very general. |
|
| Author: | SoDesuNe [ Sat May 16, 2015 1:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan |
Great, thank you! : ) I guess, I sometimes take my approach to hardwire shapes into my brain (by repeating the same problems over and over again) a step too far and forget that you can solve quite a bunch with simple logical reasoning; understanding the problem behind the problem. Maybe logical reasoning is also easier to remember or preserved longer. Seeing, how difficult GGPfB vol 4 is for me, I wonder whether long lasting Go strength has more to do with understanding than with remembering. Although these two might be hard to differentiate. I'm looking forward to books like the Yi Ch'ang'ho series, which I solved quite heavily before my "break". Really thrilled to see how well they go now compared to before, maybe I'll find some first clues to answer my question? =) On another note, I wanted to comment on a handicap game by Go Seigen, especially focussing on amashi and hiroi. Well, figures, I'm way to weak to do that but I nevertheless enjoyed Go Seigen's play immensely. So, for public pleasure, here it is: I forgot, was a game won by 1 point considered a masterpiece-contender or a game lost by 1 point? |
|
| Author: | RBerenguel [ Sat May 16, 2015 4:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan |
Lost by 1 while giving handicap, isn't it? |
|
| Author: | ez4u [ Sat May 16, 2015 6:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan |
Bill Spight wrote: Black has no eye in the corner, but has four connection points (marked). One of these points is special. Which one is it, and why? ... Aniki, Black has no eye, which is why he needs to connect. The point is not about making an eye or preventing an eye. While I now understand the general point you wanted to emphasize, the full solution does involve an eye. If Black mistakenly starts with 1 below, White plays 2 and 4. Both of these plays reduce Black's liberties. After 4 White is two liberties ahead in the capturing race. If White plays 'a' instead of 4, Black is captured but White is only one liberty ahead so Black 'b' is left as a ko threat. Black 2 below prevents both 2 and 4 in the diagram above. It simultaneously protects two of Black's connection points because of the threat to make an eye if White throws in at 3 below. White has nothing better than 2 and Black is safe after 3. Just my ¥2 worth. |
|
| Author: | Bill Spight [ Sat May 16, 2015 10:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan |
ez4u wrote: Bill Spight wrote: Black has no eye in the corner, but has four connection points (marked). One of these points is special. Which one is it, and why? ... Aniki, Black has no eye, which is why he needs to connect. The point is not about making an eye or preventing an eye. While I now understand the general point you wanted to emphasize, the full solution does involve an eye. If Black mistakenly starts with 1 below, White plays 2 and 4. Both of these plays reduce Black's liberties. After 4 White is two liberties ahead in the capturing race. If White plays 'a' instead of 4, Black is captured but White is only one liberty ahead so Black 'b' is left as a ko threat. Black 2 below prevents both 2 and 4 in the diagram above. It simultaneously protects two of Black's connection points because of the threat to make an eye if White throws in at 3 below. White has nothing better than 2 and Black is safe after 3. Just my ¥2 worth. If  I believe that  is correct. No need to sacrifice a stone at "a".
|
|
| Author: | SoDesuNe [ Wed May 20, 2015 1:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SoDesuNe paves his road to Shodan |
Cute little Tsumego: Hint: |
|
| Page 16 of 23 | All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ] |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|