Life In 19x19

I posted my opinion on the TL thread - "If tears were a clean burning fuel, this thread could have single-handedly solve the world's energy crisis." I think Blizzard is doing the right thing in terms of being cautious about balance changes. If you're driving around in the winter time, and you start to lose traction, the last thing you want to do is slam on the breaks and jerk the wheel. The balance problems are actually pretty subtle, and need subtle adjustments.

I don't play Zerg, but from every ZvT replay I've seen, the reaper nerf was absolutely needed. Blizzard's comments basically echo Idra's, and I think he's as well qualified as anyone to say. Reapers restrict Zerg too much in the opening. Even though it's "only" 5 seconds, it'll add up with multiple reapers, cascading into the timing of the rest of the build. The end result is that the Zerg player will have more quite a few more options because of slightly bigger window.

The zealot nerf is probably a net positive. Zealots are almost as bad for Zerg as reapers, and early zealot rushes have gotten kind of silly in PvP too. I'd be worried about 6-pool, but I never see Zerg players on the ladder so it doesn't affect me. I've heard everything from "6-pool will be auto-win on Steppes!" to "6-pool already beats your first zealot on short rush maps anyway, but you'll be fine because it's easy to kill the first wave of zerglings with probe micro." I'm not good enough to know which is true.

I can't believe how many players think all warpgate units have the same cooldown time and think the patch increases warpgate cooldown by 5 seconds for all units. Seriously, even some platinum and diamond players think this. I don't know how you could have played more than 10 games as Protoss and still not notice that different units have different cooldown times.

Proxy rax is eventually going to become standard in PvT with a slower first zealot. It already works almost every time I've seen it in a stream or replay. I think the only reason it hasn't become the standard already is because nobody's noticed how broken it is.

The tank nerf is good, I suppose, but I would have gladly traded it for a marauder nerf. Yes, breaking a seiged up Terran is hard. Stopping early marauders is much harder.

As far as features... I agree that it's strange it's taken this long for basic stuff like chat support.

There's a lot of whining about the game clock too - that it makes it too easy for the n00bs. So? I guess they complained about stuff like auto-mine and control groups too. I mean, it's not like strong players didn't make use of the APM and mental overhead freed up from not having to send their workers to mine. Guess what, if they don't have to waste their time on busy-work, they can do other stuff and the best players will still come out on top!

I think it'll be the same with the clock. Low level players won't get any benefit, since their mechanics are so bad that timings don't matter. Improving players will have a new learning tool, so the quality of play will improve. The very top level players don't need the clock because their timing is already pretty good. At "regular" diamond level play, it will be harder to get away with well known timings that you get off some build on the Internet. People who have unusual or creative play, or who can find novel timings will be rewarded. And I think that will improve the overall quality of play.

I think it's hilarious that after all the speculation, there are literally no balance changes other than the ones already announced.

Other than that, I'm really excited about the new clock. I think it will dramatically help me (and everyone else) see the progression of the game and get more comfortable with how long certain things take (e.g. rush distance, killing a spore crawler with five mutas, etc. etc.). It should make everyone a better player, which is great for the game.

MountainGo wrote:I think it's hilarious that after all the speculation, there are literally no balance changes other than the ones already announced.

And here I was hoping for team-colored FFs and a Dark Shrine that doesn't take a year to complete, according to an earlier rumored patch note .

If you read this thread, don't listen to anything I have to say. I'm on a losing streak and getting paired up with a lot of bronze players, so I think I'm gonna get demoted.

fwiffo wrote:If you read this thread, don't listen to anything I have to say. I'm on a losing streak and getting paired up with a lot of bronze players, so I think I'm gonna get demoted.

I'm on the cusp of demotion, too. Just don't lose to too many of those Bronzies and you should be fine. And remember that league doesn't matter.

MountainGo wrote:

fwiffo wrote:If you read this thread, don't listen to anything I have to say. I'm on a losing streak and getting paired up with a lot of bronze players, so I think I'm gonna get demoted.

I'm on the cusp of demotion, too. Just don't lose to too many of those Bronzies and you should be fine. And remember that league doesn't matter.

Just to make you feel better: I may get promoted to the Bronze league soon Enjoying the practice league so much that I can't make myself click that `skip' button. Worst part is, I feel I am learning a lot even in practice league, and I am losing half of my games while doing it anyways.

The connection between the two pictures below should be obvious. My question to you guys is: What are you thoughts on BM in these two scenarios? Are they really the same, or in fact different? Is one more BM than the other? Are they even BM to begin with, or does the BM really go to the player who isn't resigning/gg'ing out? I know a few Go players who, at times, do a premature pass instead of playing the 1-1 online when they're waiting for the opponent to resign already and they feel that it's the opponent who's BMing for not getting the hint and wasting both their time.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W |
$$ | . X X X . O X X O O O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O X O . . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O . X O X O O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X O . O . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O X O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . O . . . . O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O O . O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . O . X X X . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

In SC, the player with the superior position usually has more income and the lead only widens over time. In Go, the player with the superior position usually has to back out of fights with an unclear and potentially game changing outcome and usually has fewer ko threats and fighting options so the lead tends to decrease over time. Because of this, the go example seems more insulting. The win isn't as 100% given so it has the subtext of I will win 100% from here (enough that I'm confident enough to pass) because I'm playing you.

A go game can almost always be thrown into chaos. In the example you've given Black can launch an all out attack on the White group at the bottom and attempt to turn the entire right side into territory (it's at least something to do before resigning).

I doubt there will be a single person on this forum that hasn't lost a "won" game in embarrassing fashion. I've done it more times than I can count. I usually silently thank any non-resigning opponent as I know I need as much help as I can get to practise that elusive skill of winning a won game.

Araban wrote:The connection between the two pictures below should be obvious. My question to you guys is: What are you thoughts on BM in these two scenarios? Are they really the same, or in fact different? Is one more BM than the other? Are they even BM to begin with, or does the BM really go to the player who isn't resigning/gg'ing out? I know a few Go players who, at times, do a premature pass instead of playing the 1-1 online when they're waiting for the opponent to resign already and they feel that it's the opponent who's BMing for not getting the hint and wasting both their time.

$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W |
$$ | . X X X . O X X O O O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O X O . . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O . X O X O O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X O . O . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O X O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . O . . . . O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O O . O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . O . X X X . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W |
$$ | . X X X . O X X O O O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O X O . . O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O . X O X O O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . O X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X O X O . O . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O X O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . O . . . . O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O O . O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . O . X X X . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

I actually think they're different because of the different means of determining the winner of each game. The corner move by White says, "Wake up! The finished areas of the board are so far in my favor, there's no way you could come back on the rest of the board." The Terran nukes say, "Wake up! If I wanted to, I could kill you easily and you couldn't stop me." In other words, White's lead is sitting on the board, but Terran's lead is hypothetical. He should have just started killing buildings.

But I don't know, I'm still thinking about both.

Obviously when I say I silently thank the non-resigning opponent, that's only a few weeks later when the rage that they think they've still got a chance of beating me with their feeble skills (they don't even know when to resign!) has subsided a little.

Whee, on the NA server, latency seems ok. Won my placements, been placed in plat. New account is childsish.871

Nothing terribly strange has happened. Got Protoss twice, made zealots, stalkers and sentries, won against opponents producing less units, one guy says he doesn't usually lose pvp. Got Zerg twice, made zerglings, won against opponents producing less units, one guy complains that he would have won if I hadn't made them, asks for rematch, calls me names after game (possible stalker? At least he has to catch a plane to find me). Got Terran, made marines, marauders, won against opponent producing less units, guy didn't complain, but he did swear when he accidentally canceled his barracks (however, I can sympathize :p). Only cheese was someone building a pylon and assimilator in my base.

While it's only been 5 games, it's been slightly chattier than SE Asia, possibly because there are mostly native English speakers?

They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I was inspired by a *particular* game played by InCa (from the GSL) and so, I decided to try the same cheese strategy on my experimental account. There is a pretty funny blunder I made, but I managed to patch it up and take the game in 4:04 (not found) . Felt dirty, but it was fun...hopefully I can get more opportunities to try it so I can polish it up.

Replay here: http://replayfu.com/r/vtb3Hc

Araban wrote:They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I was inspired by a *particular* game played by InCa (from the GSL) and so, I decided to try the same cheese strategy on my experimental account. There is a pretty funny blunder I made, but I managed to patch it up and take the game in 4:04 (not found) . Felt dirty, but it was fun...hopefully I can get more opportunities to try it so I can polish it up.

Replay here: http://replayfu.com/r/vtb3Hc

Oh, I just watched that, and inspired by you I tried to cannon rush my opponent. I won. Well, let's just put it this way, it needs a lot more polish. I made several mistakes, and still managed to win in 5:51.

I think you got a little lucky in that game. Your opponent had to go answer his door or something at some point and didn't bother to pause. Just sat there not looking at anything, not building probes, not putting probes on gas (which is probably actually good against the cannon rush), letting his minerals climb. He then came back and queued up 3 workers.

He saw the pylon at the bottom of his ramp and had already seen the forge. He chose to scout round his base as opposed to the bottom of the ramp. When he found your probe up there he just left it. Can't he kill it with 2 or 3 of his and a little micro (I'm not sure about this though)? If that probe dies what happens? Presumably you can't see up his ramp to shoot up and you lose.
Hmmmmm, maybe not having completely walled off the ramp could be beneficial. You can just add a third pylon if you need to, but if you lose your probe in the base you can send the next one up.

It's a pretty scary build though. The question is: how bad do you feel playing it?

Tooveli wrote:I think you got a little lucky in that game. Your opponent had to go answer his door or something at some point and didn't bother to pause. Just sat there not looking at anything, not building probes, not putting probes on gas (which is probably actually good against the cannon rush), letting his minerals climb. He then came back and queued up 3 workers.

He saw the pylon at the bottom of his ramp and had already seen the forge. He chose to scout round his base as opposed to the bottom of the ramp. When he found your probe up there he just left it. Can't he kill it with 2 or 3 of his and a little micro (I'm not sure about this though)? If that probe dies what happens? Presumably you can't see up his ramp to shoot up and you lose.
Hmmmmm, maybe not having completely walled off the ramp could be beneficial. You can just add a third pylon if you need to, but if you lose your probe in the base you can send the next one up.

It's a pretty scary build though. The question is: how bad do you feel playing it?

Yeah, like I said the execution was pretty sloppy but it was my first time trying it and I was only going off of a VOD (it'd be pretty sweet, albeit extremely unlikely, that GomTV release the replays though). I haven't had a chance to see my opponent's POV; will check it out later.

Regarding the probe, it's crucial that it be killed (that is, assuming I had properly contained with the pylons) but it's nearly impossible with a bit of micro until a Stalker pops out, which by then is already edging to being too late. But even if the probe dies, then the build just falters back to a simple pylon contain with cannons right outside the ramp instead of being in the mineral line. The thing is that the build is not very effective against Protoss since they can one-base for quite some time; instead, it is typically used against Zerg where getting a quick expo is standard.

And I felt bad, but not too bad...nothing feels worse than trying to proxy 2 gate someone imo. VR rushing w/ proxy Stargate in PvZ is a close-second .

Also, regarding replays...I'd love it if people shared some of their games too! I enjoy watching as much as I play and I am also willing to help/review a bit for anyone in bronze or silver (and I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one). I would recommend replayfu.com to upload; very simple and clean.