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Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=12435

Page 23 of 24

Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:09 pm
by Kirby
Schachus wrote:Either I dont get your point, or you got the maths wrong. 2^(1/5)!= 2^(-5)= 1/32


2^(1/5) != "two to the fifth"; 2^(1/5) is "two to the one-fifth". "two to the fifth" is 2^5 = 32.

But anyway, nice joke.

Thanks for all of the kind messages, and see you all in about two to the thirty-six twenty-fifths* weeks!

*
"two to the thirty-six twenty-fifths weeks" => 2^(36/25) weeks => 2.7132 weeks => 2 weeks and 4.9924 days => February 10th @ around 3pm Pacific time.

Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:10 am
by Joaz Banbeck
Just in case you guys missed it in all the other chatter, we moved :b1: as shown in the diagram below.
Moves :w2: and :b3: are a trigger.

TegaiS wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:42 am
by emeraldemon
@white
I thought I posted but I guess I forgot to submit. Seems like we should probably either extend again or jump to a? I don't think we can ignore the atari.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 4 a . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:18 am
by skydyr
emeraldemon wrote:@white
I thought I posted but I guess I forgot to submit. Seems like we should probably either extend again or jump to a? I don't think we can ignore the atari.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 4 a . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

@white
:w4: in that diagram still feels painful, and I think we need to fight back more strongly.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I still want to play something like this move to start driving black, as I think we are strong enough now.

Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:49 pm
by emeraldemon
@white
Might as well try it. I agree that just extending again is painful.

Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:58 am
by Uberdude
@obs
Not extending means black hane there is painful and you can't tenuki or fall for this snapback:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 1 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O O . 9 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X 4 3 8 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 7 5 O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If the tenuki is this 2 then that sequence is avoided, but white's shape is still dire. White might make the a-b exchange to help a bit, but black's top grows nicely. I think white needs to extend at 1.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 1 b . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O O . . a . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:06 am
by andreyl
@white
I prefer to extend,the hane looks too good for black.
overally the situation is not easy for white,our middle group is not doing much and our prime aim should be to stabilize it and then settle the left side

Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:21 am
by emeraldemon
@white
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 5 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . 6 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Can we answer the hane this way?

Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:27 am
by skydyr
emeraldemon wrote:@white
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 5 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . 6 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Can we answer the hane this way?

That looks reasonable, but I'd want to consider ignoring it to put pressure on black's left-side group too. I worry if we don't try to play actively, we'll consolidate black's local advantage.

Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:59 am
by emeraldemon
white
I am afraid if we tennuki black can cut and the fight will be bad for us:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 5 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 8 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 9 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 6 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But we could play a move like this to protect the cut:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 5 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:07 am
by skydyr
emeraldemon wrote:white
I am afraid if we tennuki black can cut and the fight will be bad for us:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 5 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 8 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 9 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 6 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But we could play a move like this to protect the cut:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 5 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


My thoughts were to strengthen the center group in line with your second diagram.

Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:30 pm
by Bill Spight
I see that Uberdude has beat me to the punch. I second his suggestion to extend.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 6 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 4 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Bruce Wilcox's idea that having only 4 dame is tactically problematic is a good guide here. After :w4: White has 6 dame. :) In addition :w4: threatens :w6:, which in turn threatens the Black group.

Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:25 am
by Joaz Banbeck
@Observers:
What the heck are they talking about? :scratch:

It has been about a week. And even an SDK who spends five minutes analyzing the position should be able to see that white must extend.

Are they debating Trump vs Sanders? Maybe who is going to win the Super Bowl?

Are they even close to making a move?

Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:20 am
by emeraldemon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@white
Sorry, it's been 10 days. I'm making a move.

Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:57 am
by Celebrir
Joaz Banbeck wrote:@Observers:
What the heck are they talking about? :scratch:

It has been about a week. And even an SDK who spends five minutes analyzing the position should be able to see that white must extend.

Are they debating Trump vs Sanders? Maybe who is going to win the Super Bowl?

Are they even close to making a move?

@Joaz:
Curious to hear your opinion about this move ;-)
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