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34. Magicwand (3d) vs. Kirby (1d)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=484

Page 24 of 26

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 11:57 pm
by Kirby
Magicwand wrote:
Kirby wrote:...I'd be happy to play again at 3 stones.


set it up and i will start palying.


Sure thing. I'll probably set it up in about 24 hours.

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 12:30 am
by singular
Great game, highly entertaining. Thanks!

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 5:38 am
by Magicwand
some comment about my mistake.
marked white stone should have been played at 'a'
it cost me 1 point and in close game it means alot.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move # idontcare - Prisoners: B=5, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X O . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X O a O X X . O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . W , O O X X X X . . X |
$$ | . . X X O O X X . X O O O . . . X X O |
$$ | . X . X X O O X . X O X O X O O O O . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X O O O X X X . . X O O |
$$ | . X O X O . X O . O X X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . O O X O O O . . O O O X X . O X X O |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O X X . X . , X O . |
$$ | . . X . O X . . O X X X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O O O X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . . . O X X . X O . . . . O |
$$ | . X X O O . . . O X . X X O . . . O . |
$$ | . O X . . O . . . O X O O . . O O . O |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . O O . . X . O X O X |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . X O X X . X |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:02 am
by Kirby
daniel_the_smith wrote:
Kirby wrote:
(snip)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . 9 . 3 1 7 . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . 4 X 2 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


(snip)


I always feel like this corner is much better for white unless black already has stones further down the right side. Am I crazy?


This could be true - I definitely prefer it when I have lower black influence of some kind.

During the game, I also considered N17. What would you play from this board position (this question is for anybody)?

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:05 am
by Kirby
Everybody: Was S15 better than O3?

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:08 am
by Kirby
prokofiev wrote:
Kirby wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 3 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 0 . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


looks pretty dangerous for me. Magicwand can sacrifice his stone, and I get all clumped up. He has some strength on the right side, so I don't like this.


This looks good for black to me. Maybe connecting now after 10 is best, but consider that if you don't connect and instead develop black 1,7,9 (I'm not sure what's best, but maybe P9?) you're looking pretty good I think.


Is this true? Is this good for black? I felt like black was clumped up this way.

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:12 am
by Kirby
Magicwand wrote:
i can compare my playing style with chicken game.
two cars facing each others and chicken will fold.
i said you play yours i think my moyo is bigger!
is he going to play chicken and invade?
or he will say what i get over here is big and i am satisfied!

below is the variation i have in mind after he invade and i get sente.
it will build another huge moyo. and he will be even deeper in the snow.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 28 - Prisoners: B=1, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O 8 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 X 3 6 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 5 4 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@Magicwand: What should I have played here, after your move?

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:14 am
by Kirby
Magicwand wrote:
some helpful hint.
do not waste your aji unless you read the move completely.
he waste 4 point sente aji to try something he doesnt even know what he is going to do.
i would feel really bad if i waste that much point on nothing.
there is distinct timing when you play such move.
it has to be perfect timing or you will lose points. same with 3-3 point invasion.
i believe at this point white is ahead by few points. but it will not be easy for me to keep that lead if he plays solid moves till the end. i mean he will have his chance to win the game for sure. when you are not sure i suggest wait till you see a chance.
way he played his invasion seems wrong to me. such play might decide the game very quickly.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm32 Move 32 - Prisoners: B=1, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . B O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


What should I play from here, instead?

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:22 am
by Kirby
Magicwand wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm93 Move 93 - Prisoners: B=2, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O X X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X W |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
trick move to get sente.


edited comment
if he answers at 1 the i will play 2 which will save my group in sente.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 93 - Prisoners: B=2, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O X X . O . O 3 . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X W |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


What is the correct response?

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:25 am
by Kirby
Magicwand wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm109 Move 109 - Prisoners: B=3, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . . . O X X . O O O X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . W . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

if i was black i would have protected this corner. what he played is very small.


What is the correct response to the 3-3 here?

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:29 am
by Kirby
zinger wrote:
topazg wrote:
Wow, Kirby doesn't even need to play a ko threat here does he ?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm117 Move 117 - Prisoners: B=3, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . . . O X X . O O O X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O X O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 5 O X X X . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 3 X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X X . O X 1 a |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X O |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . O O . . X . O X 2 X |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I really agree, black should have done this. Except that 117 should be at a to guarantee the cut. Otherwise white can link in ko by playing there.

Once black does that, he has made an exchange of equal-size groups - except that the one he gave up isn't dead yet! It can still live in ko. Not to mention black gets sente to cut in the center (or do whatever). Great exchange for black.


I agree with topazg and your idea completely. In the game, I was too anxious.

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:33 am
by Kirby
Magicwand wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm126 Move 127 - Prisoners: B=3, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X . X X X . . . O X X . O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . , O O X X X X . . X |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . . O O . . . X X O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O X O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O X X X . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O . O |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . O O . . X . O X O X |
$$ | . . O . X O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . X O X X . X |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


What is the best response to this? The sequence that followed gave whit good use of his wall...

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:36 am
by Kirby
For all: any critique of my overall thought process? Where am I weakest?

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:39 am
by Chew Terr
Certainly not endgame! I was very impressed at how long you kept sente.

...this is all that I am equipped to comment on. Both sides played a high-level game. Thank you for commenting thoroughly, it is helpful to those of us below, even if we don't always know enough to know what questions to ask.

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:41 am
by unkx80
Kirby wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm93 Move 93 - Prisoners: B=2, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O X X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X W |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
trick move to get sente.


edited comment
if he answers at 1 the i will play 2 which will save my group in sente.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 93 - Prisoners: B=2, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O X X . O . O 3 . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X W |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


What is the correct response?


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm93 Move 93 - Prisoners: B=2, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O X X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X W |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


You can consider this move.
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Page 24 of 26

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