I played a 7k friend in an even game for some real time practice, the result surprised me. If we could get some ideas for both sides, I apologise for the amount of work this involves, that'd be great. Just a few pointers will do, no need for an in-depth analysis or anything like that.
I've added a few comments of my own but nothing in depth as it's very late and I'm quite sedated.
(;CA[utf-8]RU[Japanese]ST[2]OT[5x30 byo-yomi]GM[1]AP[SmartGo:2.8.3.0]SZ[19]FF[4] DT[2012-07-31]PC[KGS]PB[Boidhre]BR[10k]PW[bentw]WR[7k]KM[6.5]TM[1800.0]RE[B+9.5] MULTIGOGM[0] ;B[qd]BL[1791.8];W[dp]WL[1795.8];B[pp]BL[1785.7];W[dc]WL[1791.4];B[oc]BL[1782.2] ;W[qj]WL[1785.3];B[qg]BL[1764.5];W[qn]WL[1781];B[nq]BL[1760.4] (;W[pn]WL[1763.4]C[See var.];B[cf]BL[1745.2];W[cd]WL[1730.1];B[ci]BL[1731.7];W[ck] WL[1707.1];B[ei]BL[1714.9];W[dm]WL[1703.8];B[fq]BL[1707.3];W[dr]WL[1671.4];B[jp] BL[1696.8];W[hq]WL[1660];B[gp]BL[1672.9];W[kr]WL[1525.8] (;B[lq]BL[1483.9]C[See var.];W[gr]WL[1482.6];B[fr]BL[1479.6];W[iq]WL[1403.1];B[jq] BL[1405.9];W[jr]WL[1357.3];B[gq]BL[1357.8];W[lr]WL[1344.3];B[mr]BL[1353.7];W[hr] WL[1339.4];B[hp]BL[1333.1];W[is]WL[1335.8];B[ip]BL[1331];W[rp]WL[1333.4];B[qq]BL[1328.7] ;W[id]WL[1309.1];B[kd]BL[1320.2];W[ef]WL[1296];B[eo]BL[1278.2];W[do]WL[1291.5];B[en] BL[1276.7];W[el]WL[1280.3];B[jf]BL[1217.7];W[je]WL[1274.4];B[ke]BL[1211.5];W[if] WL[1272.5];B[jg]BL[1207];W[gg]WL[1266.2];B[gi]BL[1172.6];W[gl]WL[1250.6];B[fl]BL[1150.1] ;W[fk]WL[1211];B[fm]BL[1146.6];W[ej]WL[1209.2];B[gk]BL[1139.7];W[rh]WL[1176.5] (;B[rg]BL[1121.3]C[See var.] (;W[oj]WL[1169.8]C[See vars.];B[qh]BL[1048.5];W[mp]WL[1119];B[mq]BL[1035.3];W[mn] WL[1114.8];B[no]BL[949.7];W[nn]WL[1111.4];B[mo]BL[945.6];W[nh]WL[1102.1];B[ni]BL[933.9] ;W[oi]WL[1093.2];B[oh]BL[932.4];W[nj]WL[1091.5];B[mi]BL[931.1];W[mj]WL[1090.1];B[li] BL[929];W[lj]WL[1088.7];B[kj]BL[916];W[rq]WL[1087.2];B[ln]BL[887.1];W[lm]WL[1079.5] ;B[kn]BL[884.3];W[kk]WL[1077.5];B[jj]BL[882];W[km]WL[1072.4];B[jm]BL[875.5];W[de] WL[1066.1];B[jd]BL[834.4];W[ie]WL[1055.1];B[ic]BL[832.4];W[hc]WL[1054];B[ib]BL[831.3] ;W[hb]WL[1053];B[ha]BL[823.9];W[ga]WL[1051.9];B[ia]BL[822.3];W[gb]WL[1050.7] (;B[jk]BL[807.1]C[See var.] (;W[di]WL[1045.8]C[See var.];B[dh]BL[798];W[dj]WL[1043.9];B[eh]BL[796.3];W[gj]WL[1037] ;B[hk]BL[780.3] (;W[bh]WL[1009.6]C[See var.];B[bi]BL[746.9];W[bj]WL[995.9];B[ai]BL[744.4];W[aj] WL[960.5];B[ch]BL[718.7];W[bf]WL[950.3] (;B[bg]BL[713.9]C[Very strange feeling.];W[be]WL[948.7] (;B[hh]BL[666.5]C[Very strange.];W[qr]WL[945.7];B[pr]BL[662.8];W[rr]WL[943.2];B[ri] BL[640.8];W[rj]WL[941.4];B[qi]BL[632.8] (;W[pi]WL[926.1]C[See var.];B[ph]BL[630.7];W[kl]WL[915.8];B[cq]BL[599.5];W[dq]WL[911.3] ;B[cn]BL[597.8];W[dn]WL[908.1];B[bp]BL[595.7];W[br]WL[906];B[cr]BL[592.8];W[cs] WL[904.4];B[bq]BL[590.2];W[bs]WL[901.6];B[ar]BL[584.9];W[co]WL[892.1];B[bo]BL[582.6] ;W[bn]WL[890.3];B[bm]BL[577.3];W[cm]WL[889];B[an]BL[576.2];W[bl]WL[882.6];B[cn] BL[556.3];W[al]WL[874.7];B[cj]BL[497.2]C[Why?];W[bk]WL[866.5]C[Why? End of notes.] ;B[fi]BL[488];W[fj]WL[863];B[hj]BL[486.4];W[ag]WL[846.5];B[ah]BL[481];W[af]WL[845.3] ;B[df]BL[477.9];W[fe]WL[833.7];B[eg]BL[468.3];W[fg]WL[832.5];B[hg]BL[463];W[hf] WL[831.5];B[oo]BL[427.4];W[on]WL[825.9];B[qp]BL[422.8];W[qo]WL[824.4];B[sj]BL[403.3] ;W[sk]WL[821.6];B[si]BL[402.3];W[rk]WL[820.6];B[em]BL[378.3];W[dl]WL[815.5];B[ep] BL[366.4];W[gs]WL[809];B[es]BL[359];W[ds]WL[804.3];B[ps]BL[342.8];W[qs]WL[795.5] ;B[ms]BL[340.6];W[ls]WL[792.4];B[jl]BL[331.8];W[ig]WL[786.5];B[ih]BL[330.3];W[kq] WL[777.1];B[kp]BL[323.2];W[]WL[755.5];B[ce]BL[313.5];W[bd]WL[751.5];B[]BL[279.3] ;W[]WL[751.5]TB[fn][ld][ja][jc][pc][qc][od][rd][qe][kf][cg][sg][bh][jh][rh][hi] [ij][gl][jn][ko][lp][oq][pq][nr]TW[fc][rs][aa][ac][bc][ec][js][dd][hd][ge][ff][pj] [ak][dk][lk][qk][cl][rl][am][mm][bm][cn][cp][sp][ir][hs]) (;W[ph];B[og];W[pi])) (;B[hj])) (;B[be])) (;W[hj]TR[hk][gi][gk]SQ[hj][gj])) (;W[jc]C[Did either of you read this?])) (;B[jc])) (;W[gj];B[hk];W[hj]TR[gi][gk]SQ[hj][gj][fk][ej]C[Broken shape for B -- W cannot miss this.]) (;W[qh]C[Locally, the move is here.];B[ph];W[pi])) (;B[fj]C[W gave you a chance to fix everything here.])) (;B[jr])) (;W[pl]))
Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:17 pm
by Boidhre
Thanks Ed. Plenty food for thought there.
Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:17 am
by Konijntje
After the proposed cut at K17 on move 98, is there a concrete variation to White advantage? I guess B K18, W L17, B L18, W M17, B M18 are forced, but then? White can cut and probe at many points, but I haven't been able to string them together to a clear direct path. Or is it "just" free building up of aji within B's territory, to maybe be used later?
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:35 am
by EdLee
Konijntje,
Konijntje wrote:I guess B K18, W L17, B L18, W M17, B M18 are forced, but then?
I didn't read it out; the point was whether they had.
After W K17, B K18, W L17, B L18, W M17, B M18, W N17, B N18.... the aji is super bad for B. (Maybe B is still OK. )
Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:16 am
by Boidhre
A loss. I've added some sleep deprived comments, which may be wildly wrong. Stupid bipolar = no sleep. I'm quite unhappy with my opening play from two months ago. Ah, the curse of turn based.
Addendum: Move 60, why pincer? The left is not worth a whole lot to me now with me pressed so low in the bottom half.
Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:21 am
by jts
Some thoughts:
8: I wouldn't call j4 idiotic. That's far too harsh. It's equivalent to the 4-4 sequence where you kick the approach stone and then pincer without extending. You need to distinguish between moves that you are immediately unhappy with and regret playing, but still give you a fun, playable game, and moves that are shameful seriously derail the game. Every go player makes type I errors, and continues to play while taking them in stride.
11: See? Already , your "idiotic" move has made a friend. B11 should be at C5; since it's not, you can be happy with taking C5 yourself, and suddenly J4 looks good. The cut doesn't work. Unless it does, in which case you can laugh at me.
25: True.
28: Now you push him in the wrong direction, IMHO: into your base. The natural thing to do here is play around q7.
46: As an attempt to get endgame in sente by threatening to connect before running out, this is okay (although not to my taste). However, once you take gote you are screwed. This move seems to be gote.
50: Phew.
56: Not freaking out about losing the meaningless stone at m7: excellent! Forgetting that the group on the bottom is not exactly swimming in eyespace: less excellent.
108: Nice cut!
114: I'd go with L10. You just cut off some stones, remember? If they connect on the other side, that was kind of pointless.
128: It's very clever that you saw all these sequences whereby you can make eyes hand over fist, but you don't need to break the glass until B takes away your eye on the bottom.
134: Don't push if you're not going to cut.
156: At this stage in the game, think in terms of "reduce his territory at the boundary" rather than in terms of "disrupting his moyo".
169: It's a huge shame that B got this move, since at this point in the game Ws2 is also sente.
174: I believe it removes a ko, actually.
224: Not really a point... (technically a 0-point move with a 1/2 point followup).
Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:01 pm
by Boidhre
Thanks jts.
Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:11 pm
by mitsun
JTS mentioned this in passing, but it deserves more attention. This is one of the best life-and-death problems ever, since it comes up so often in real games.
$$Status? $$ -------------- $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . X O O . . | $$ . . X . X O . O | $$ . . . . X X O . | $$ . . . . . . X . | $$ . . . . . X . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . |
[go]$$Status? $$ -------------- $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . X O O . . | $$ . . X . X O . O | $$ . . . . X X O . | $$ . . . . . . X . | $$ . . . . . X . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . |[/go]
For reference, W is completely alive below. It pays to learn this basic shape, so that you do not have to read it out every time it occurs in one of your games.
$$Alive $$ -------------- $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . O . . | $$ . . X . X O . O | $$ . . . . X X O . | $$ . . . . . . X . | $$ . . . . . X . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . |
[go]$$Status? $$ -------------- $$ . . . . . 4 3 6 | $$ . . . X O O 2 1 | $$ . . X . X O 8 O | $$ . . . . X X O 7 | $$ . . . . . . X 5 | $$ . . . . . X . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Other than being an excellent ko threat later on if white doesn't fix in gote for half a point. Either way it's gote for white taking or ignoring the ko unless they have a ko threat bigger than the corner to save for the crucial moment against Black. Or am I missing the whole point of this?
Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:37 pm
by Redundant
You still don't have the right
Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:37 pm
by Boidhre
Ah.
$$Status? $$ -------------- $$ . . . . . 4 3 6 | $$ . . . X O O 2 1 | $$ . . X . X O 7 O | $$ . . . . X X O 5 | $$ . . . . . . X . | $$ . . . . . X . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . |
[go]$$Status? $$ -------------- $$ . . . . . 4 3 6 | $$ . . . X O O 2 1 | $$ . . X . X O 8 O | $$ . . . . X X O 7 | $$ . . . . . . X 5 | $$ . . . . . X . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Other than being an excellent ko threat later on if white doesn't fix in gote for half a point. Either way it's gote for white taking or ignoring the ko unless they have a ko threat bigger than the corner to save for the crucial moment against Black. Or am I missing the whole point of this?
It seems that you're pretty close, so I was trying to come up with the right hint that's actually helpful yet does not solve the problem for you. Here are a few tips that are generally useful. I hope that you succeed!
The success of a sequence involving often depends on making sure that you are the first one to take the ko.
Sometimes, if your opponent prevents one ko, you might be able to start another.
Changing the order of a sequence that almost works is sometimes good.
Omitting a move in a sequence that almost works is sometimes good. (Relate this to the first tip)
The opponent cannot atari if playing the atari puts him in atari.
with miai for life at a and b. Then I'm useless for finding ko's in life and death problems.
being an excellent ko threat later on if white doesn't fix in gote for half a point. Either way it's gote for white taking or ignoring the ko unless they have a ko threat bigger than the corner to save for the crucial moment against Black. Or am I missing the whole point of this?