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56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=932

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Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:59 pm
by daniel_the_smith
Looks like black will lose four stones, though-- that's huge.

Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:59 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
If I were playing black, I would show how this last move is an attempt to indirectly get myself an eye.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Move 7 @ 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O O . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X X X X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | O X O X B 1 . . . X O . . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | X . X X O O 2 . X . . . . O O O O O X |
$$ | . X X . X O 3 X . X . O O X X O O X . |
$$ | X X X X O 4 5 X . X X X . . . X X . . |
$$ | O O X O O O 6 X X O O X X X X . . X . |
$$ | O X X X O X O O O . O . O . . . O O . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . O |
$$ | O O O 8 9 X X O X X O X . . O X O O X |
$$ | . . . . 0 X O O . . . O O . . X X X X |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black threatens to get an eye with 2 above, white prevents it with 3, but then gets killed. So, presumably, white has to allow black to take both 2 and 3, thereby making the second eye.

Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:01 pm
by daniel_the_smith
Joaz, I think your colors are reversed. EDIT: fixed now, thanks :)

Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:02 pm
by Chew Terr
fwiffo wrote:Not for players:
ORLY?
Edit: D'oh! Triple-ninja'd!


Image

Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:04 pm
by Li Kao
Isn't this a double ko which black can't win?

Edit: Wow this forum is full of ninjas.

Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:12 pm
by Violence
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=7, B=11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O O . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X X X X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | O X O X X O . . . X O . . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | X . X X O O . . X . . . . O O O O O X |
$$ | . X X . X O . X . X . O O X X O O X . |
$$ | X X X X O . W X . X X X . . . X X . . |
$$ | O O X O O O X X X O O X X X X . . X . |
$$ | O X X X O X O O O O O . O . . . O O . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . O |
$$ | O O O . . X X O X X O X . . O X O O X |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . O O . . X X X X |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ah, Maybe I should've not responded to his extension. Now he's alive and connects himself.

But seriously, it doesn't make a bit of difference, guys. The views on this thread is going to be over nine thousand!

Seriously though, I'm going to make a count soon. Let's hope it verifies my feelings.

Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:13 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Li Kao wrote:
Isn't this a double ko which black can't win?

Edit: Wow this forum is full of ninjas.


Yes, sometimes they clean up diagrams when the players are playing too fast. :D

Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:14 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=7, B=11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O O . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X X X X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | O X O X X O . . . X O . . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | X . X X O O . . X . . . . O O O O O X |
$$ | . X X . X O B X . X . O O X X O O X . |
$$ | X X X X O . O X . X X X . . . X X . . |
$$ | O O X O O O X X X O O X X X X . . X . |
$$ | O X X X O X O O O O O . O . . . O O . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . O |
$$ | O O O . . X X O X X O X . . O X O O X |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . O O . . X X X X |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:15 pm
by Kirby
daniel_the_smith wrote:
Looks like black will lose four stones, though-- that's huge.


But if white captures, black can have a ko to get something if white ignores:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=6, B=11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O O . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X X X X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | O X O X X O . . . X O . . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | X . X X O O 2 . X . . . . O O O O O X |
$$ | . X X . X O 4 X . X . O O X X O O X 3 |
$$ | X X X X O X 1 X . X X X . . . X X . . |
$$ | O O X O O O X X X O O X X X X . . X . |
$$ | O X X X O X O O O O O . O . . . O O . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . O |
$$ | O O O . . X X O X X O X . . O X O O X |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . O O . . X X X X |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



So white might fix it. In that case, black can save the 4 stones.

Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:20 pm
by daniel_the_smith
hm, looks like you're right, I thought it was a double ko.

(Well, it is a double ko, it's just that I thought it favored white when it doesn't)

Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:24 pm
by Violence
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=7, B=11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O O . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X X X X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | O X O X X O . . . X O . . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | X . X X O O . . X . . . . O O O O O X |
$$ | . X X . X O B X . X . O O X X O O X . |
$$ | X X X X O W O X . X X X . . . X X . . |
$$ | O O X O O O X X X O O X X X X . . X . |
$$ | O X X X O X O O O O O . O . . . O O . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . O |
$$ | O O O . . X X O X X O X . . O X O O X |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . O O . . X X X X |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=9, B=11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . X X O X X X X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . X X O O O O O X . . . . . X O O X O |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O O O |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X X X X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O O . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | O X O X X O X O O . O X . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O O X X O . O X X X |
$$ | X . X X O O X . X . O O X O O O O O X |
$$ | . X X X X O X X . X . O O X X O O X X |
$$ | X X X X O O O X . X X X X . X X X X . |
$$ | O O X O O O X X X O O X X X X O . X O |
$$ | O X X X O X O O O O O X O X . . O O O |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O O O . O O . . O |
$$ | O O O O . X X O X X O . O O O X O O X |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . X X O O X O X X X X |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X O O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O O O X X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is my rough estimate.

I'm ahead by a little more than komi.

Now I know my counting sucks, but I don't think I can be off by 10 points...

Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:29 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=7, B=11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O O . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X X X X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | O X O X X O . . . X O . . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | X . X X O O B . X . . . . O O O O O X |
$$ | . X X . X O X X . X . O O X X O O X . |
$$ | X X X X O W O X . X X X . . . X X . . |
$$ | O O X O O O X X X O O X X X X . . X . |
$$ | O X X X O X O O O O O . O . . . O O . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . O |
$$ | O O O . . X X O X X O X . . O X O O X |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . O O . . X X X X |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:30 pm
by Violence
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=7, B=11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O O . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X X X X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | O X O X X O . . . X O . . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | X . X X O O X . X . . . . O O O O O X |
$$ | . X X . X O X X . X . O O X X O O X . |
$$ | X X X X O O O X . X X X . . . X X . . |
$$ | O O X O O O X X X O O X X X X . . X . |
$$ | O X X X O X O O O O O . O . . . O O . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . O |
$$ | O O O W . X X O X X O X . . O X O O X |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . O O . . X X X X |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:30 pm
by daniel_the_smith
is komi 6.5 or 7.5, and does W=7 mean white has captured 7 black stones or that there are 7 white prisoners?
I counted 47 (EDIT: make that 50, I missed a group) for W and 56 for B on Violence's board.

Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:32 pm
by Violence
Komi is 6.5, I have 7 captures, he has 11.
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