What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:47 am

How big is the ko in the bottom left corner? Hard to say. Just in the corner it is a medium size yose. But if Black lives White has to worry about his four stones on the left side. IMO, I don't think that Black should fight the ko just yet.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm52 Ignore the ko? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X X X X . . . . . . X . . X 2 . | $$ | . X X O O . . . . , . . . . . X W . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . | $$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | 5 X X O . . . . . , . . . X . , O . . | $$ | X 3 X O . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | 1 X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

For instance, in this variation Black secures the top right corner and gets a strong attack against the :wc:

stones in exchange for the ko.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:47 am

Fedya wrote::w46: should have been at A3 too, shouldn't it?

Bingo!

Fedya · Post by **Fedya** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:10 pm

Bill Spight wrote:Thickness, reduction, other concepts that you have difficulty with! Maybe you should forget about concepts and just fight like hell.

Granted, I didn't quite fight like hell, but in this game, it seems like every time I tried to play a move that wasn't passive, the result was that I got smacked down hard, immediately. This happens to me all too often when I play moves that aren't passive. :mad:

It also has thickness that doesn't work, and a pincer attack that goes wrong. Where have we seen those things before?

After the game, I was worried that I had screwed up on :b49:

and cost myself a chance to win. That's because I was thinking White would passively play S16 in response to S14. If White simply descends to T15, Black is toast.

dfan · Post by **dfan** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:57 pm

Fedya wrote:OK, where are my stones going to get eyes?

How about the whole center of the board?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . O . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

lightvector · Post by **lightvector** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:58 pm

You had some good ideas in this game, just the execution might have been a little off.

Move 17: As you commented, this move isn't very likeable - indeed it's slow and on the second line, so you only want to play it if there's a good reason, one such possible reason being if white could connect and this move is needed to keep white separated, as you mention. So, reading exercise for you: If you omit this move, can white connect his group up to S4?

Move 33: Your wall has some strength, but it's not so thick that it can survive or stay intact when surrounded without any additional help. The game move leaves a bad relationship from O17 to L15 that can easily be cut ("crooked horse" jump), which would not be a problem if the wall were iron-thick, but is a problem if the wall also needs to maintain a connection to outside. How about L16 or M16 instead, which leaves a better connection there? If white then tries to break through leftward it seems like you can cut him and fight.

Move 37: Yes neither the net nor ladder work, so don't try them - don't play out the broken ladder if you know it's not working. Even cut, your wall still has a fighting resource available. Exercise: Find a move that threatens something against white, such that if white plays the obvious defense, you can then capture the cutting stone, and if white saves his cutting stone, you can hurt white back.

Hint:

Answer:

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:58 pm

Just as a general attitude thing, you shouldn't be thinking about eyes at all unless your group is surrounded. Being able to make a group live in a life and death situation is good, but it's inferior to not being in that situation in the first place.

Second, both sides have to live at some point, not just you. Before you start worrying about living, make sure that it's you who needs to worry, and not your opponent instead. This has come up before, and it's really all about the way you approach the game, rather than specific moves.

Out of curiosity, do you play handicap games, and specifically high handicap games much? As black, that is.

bayu · Post by **bayu** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:57 am

Somebody told you to look into the 3-3 invasion of a hoshi with large knight shimari.. Sure enough it occurs again during the next game

This time you got invaded. Knowing the sequence helps in both instances. Especially when your opponent doesn't. :twisted:

you deviate (not a game over mistake, but you give away points and allow white follow up moves without compensation)
:w26:

he deviates also. I don't like that move. These moves are rarely correct.
:b27:

Your comment is no, no and no. The move is correct. Trust in it. P17 would be haunting you way more.
:b29:

Your opponent can potentially cut you (doesn't work now. Partly due to :b27:

). Your game move :b29:

drives your opponent into a direction so that the cut becomes possible and serious. Only do that if you have time and are willing to defend it before he can cut. Check out what your opponent did in the bottom left after you won the ko in the game you posted before. He was scared of the cut. Here, a move like N14 can cover the cut and attack the white group at the same time (2kyu advice, might not be Dan-repertoire).

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:28 am

Fedya wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:Thickness, reduction, other concepts that you have difficulty with! Maybe you should forget about concepts and just fight like hell.

Granted, I didn't quite fight like hell, but in this game, it seems like every time I tried to play a move that wasn't passive, the result was that I got smacked down hard, immediately. This happens to me all too often when I play moves that aren't passive. It also has thickness that doesn't work, and a pincer attack that goes wrong. Where have we seen those things before?

In fact, you lost this game because of pessimism. For one thing, you resigned instead of soldiering on. Courage, mon vieux.

Yes, you screwed up the attack, but the result was close to a wash. You could have taken the lead. Instead, White kept the advantage, the advantage that he had gained from your earlier pessimistic play.

After the game, I was worried that I had screwed up on and cost myself a chance to win. That's because I was thinking White would passively play S16 in response to S14. If White simply descends to T15, Black is toast.

You misread that position. Eye vs. no eye is your friend.

See comments for more.

Fedya · Post by **Fedya** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:48 pm

A lot to respond to.

dfan wrote:
Fedya wrote:OK, where are my stones going to get eyes?

How about the whole center of the board?

$$c
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . O . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I did jump out on :b29:

, and look what that got me.

The bigger issue is that when people say to run out to the center, or to get one eye on the side and one in the center, all I see is a big floating group in the center. It's the same as with something like the E12 stone in this game, which I played as an attempt at a reducing move.

Fedya · Post by **Fedya** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:08 pm

Lightvector:

I didn't see Q12 at :b37:

at all.

Skydyr:

Out of curiosity, do you play handicap games, and specifically high handicap games much? As black, that is.

No, I don't.

Bayu:

I played :b23:

at R14 because I was worried about getting split if White played the atari at Q15. Once I played R14, I realized I could capture Q15 with a net. Until I couldn't because White had already played Q18....

dfan · Post by **dfan** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:42 pm

I think one of my 2017 resolutions is to stay out of this thread.

Good luck, and I hope others can help you more effectively than I have.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:02 pm

Fedya, I see that you are online, so I won't wait to post this.

Bravo for this game. I think that you took yourself a bit out of your comfort zone. You lost the game, but so what? Also, you did a good bit of study of this game on your own.

Keep that up and you may make 5 kyu by this summer.

bayu · Post by **bayu** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:10 pm

Fedya wrote:Once I played R14, I realized I could capture Q15 with a net. Until I couldn't because White had already played Q18....

You still can. Try it out on a board and post the solution. It's pretty. Only after white played N14, the net is gone (well there are still some tricks that other people pointed out).

Fedya wrote:I did jump out on , and look what that got me.

It got you praise by Bill :bow:

. Look at the black floating group and then at the white floating group. Which do you prefer and by how much? If you could swap colours, what would be your strategy with that weak white group? Resign? It's all relative. As long as the opponent group looks even more stupid than your group, fortuna sits on your shoulder and rewards the brave. :rambo:

Sidenote concerning vocabulary: I wouldn't call :b29:

a jumping out move, but a capping attack. It doesn't help your group directly, as white could squeeze through between your group and :b29:

. A jumping out move won't leave such a gap. A jumping out move aims at getting one of your groups out. A capping attack aims at making the opponent group look stupid.

Fedya · Post by **Fedya** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:27 pm

dfan wrote:I think one of my 2017 resolutions is to stay out of this thread.

Good luck, and I hope others can help you more effectively than I have.

I guess one my resolutions will have to be not to get so easily frustrated. You're not the first person I've driven away.

Fedya · Post by **Fedya** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:40 pm

You still can. Try it out on a board and post the solution. It's pretty. Only after white played N14, the net is gone (well there are still some tricks that other people pointed out).

Wait a second. You're saying that if White had played :w32:

at Q15 instead of N14, I still could have captured it?

I saw:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 4 X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . 3 . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White escapes because the stones at Q16/Q17 are in atari.

Wait!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This looks stronger. (Perhaps you meant that the net is only gone after White played N16?)

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What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?