Teamovitch #1

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Jordus
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by Jordus »

suggestion for Move 5
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c b 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , a . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Jedos move seems like a done deal... and fwiffo suggested play in the other corner, so I decided why not throw out an interesting move in the other corner... 4-5 openings are foreign to me and 3-5 I seldom see... so what better move to attack the corner with then those rare and interesting 3-5's... i also thought maybe mirroring their 4-5 (a) would be interesting, but I don't like the complications it causes.... the 3-4 at (b) seems small and dangerous.. they say 3-3 at (c) is the safe bet for a corner... but seems very small... and possibly gote.. More than likely we will be going with Jedo's move and finishing the shimari...
I'm thinking...
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

For observers and teammates:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc a amd b are classic joseki
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . a , . . . |
$$ . . . . . 1 b . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------|[/go]
This is joseki? Ok, maybe it is if black really wants to emphasize the lower side while giving up the corner. But we don't have enough on the lower side to make it worth more than the corner. If we had several more stones there, then 3 works like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . 3 . O . . |
$$ B B . . . . , . . . |
$$ . ? ? ? ? 1 . 2 . . |
$$ . ? ? ? ? . . . . . |
$$ . ? ? ? ? . . . . . |
$$ --------------------|[/go]

When we don't have the lower side, let's look at the obvious continuation. It's a free corner; white would be a fool not to take it.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . 1 . 2 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------|[/go]
Black can make the obvious 2-space stabilizing move, like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . , . ? ? |
$$ . . 3 . . 1 . 2 ? ? |
$$ . . . ? ? . . . . ? |
$$ . . . ? ? . . . . ? |
$$ --------------------|[/go]
...in which case he gets less terrirory than white...

and white has an easy attack:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ 4 . 3 . . 1 . 2 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------|[/go]
I agree with Fwiffo: I like the previous suggestion better.
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by fwiffo »

For teammates and observers.
Actually, it was a misclick. I meant a.
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 5 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
For observers and teammates:
@teammmates: now that all three of you have made your suggestions, you can read my comments here: http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... 639#p37639
Jordus wrote:suggestion for Move 5
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c b 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , a . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Jedo's move seems like a done deal...
No, it wasn't. Two people liked it, but I was hoping for 'b' in the above diagram. It is the move most able to directly contest the 5-4.

As mentioned in the post referenced above, I think that the two left corners are the most important by a tiny margin. I was hoping that there would be nominations for mainstream kaklari/shimari in both of them. Then I would start reading to see which had the best continuation.

But the 5-3 kakari under a 5-4 is again a move that emphasises the side.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ |------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 2 1 . . . B . . B
$$ | . . . 4 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O 5 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Black gives white an easy corner, which according to proverb, is worth more than a side. It only works if black has a presence on the upper side such as the marked stones above to make the side worth more.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In summary: by strange coincidence, two of the suggestions are for obscure josekis ( or psuedosekis ) which require a stone or two on the neighboring side. Sadly, in both instances, we don't have those stones in place, and either way we would get an inferior result if our opponents simply played the obvious and natural continuation.

So that leaves only the other suggestion at C4. I'm not sure that it is the best move - I personally would have played D17 myself - but it is the only suggestion that does not have theoretical shortcomings.
EDIT: Oh dear, what to do? Fwiffo says that his was a mis-click. Uhhh...can you white players hold off until I look at it?

For observers and teammates:
Upon looking at the third suggestion, I'm not really happy with it either.
White can take his shimari with 1.
Our theoretically best play is to contest the last asymetric corner with 2 ( or the 3-3 )
White can play a standard joseki with 3
We would have to defend with 4
They continue with 5
We play joseki with 6
They get to restrict our shimari while playing joseki with 7
We have to play something like 8
They get a nice extension off of their shimari with 9
If we get something from our shimari with 10, they have sente
They probably play 'a'
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 , . 8 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . 9 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
All white stones are perfoming to their theoretical maximum, whereas black's shimari is limited. And white has sente.

Maybe the 3-3 invasion is better. It is after midnight here. More later.
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by tj86430 »

Joaz Banbeck wrote: Uhhh...can you white players hold off until I look at it?
Fine by me.

BTW, I just noticed that when I quote your message I can also see the hidden part. I didn't read it though, I just quickly deleted it from the quote.
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by topazg »

For observers and teammates:
I really hope Black plays there. Thoughts for observers to follow if it is confirmed :)
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by Jordus »

Black Internal chat:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
But the 5-3 kakari under a 5-4 is again a move that emphasises the side.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ |------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 2 1 . . . B . . B
$$ | . . . 4 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O 5 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Black gives white an easy corner, which according to proverb, is worth more than a side. It only works if black has a presence on the upper side such as the marked stones above to make the side worth more.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ |------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 2 . 1 . . a . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . c b . . . .
$$ | . . . O e . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
With this suggestion I was working under the assumption of white playing at 2 (From Jim Davies Attack and Defense, "The best way to attack is to not attach to a stone") then black follows up with a,b,or c...

*edit* I suppose black could play at e also... but it just doesn't appeal to me without an extension stone first

I did consider white attaching...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ |------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 3 2 1 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . a . . y . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . x . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
I figured this sequence here would make for an interesting fight.. if white responds to 3 at a, then black plays at b.. if white responds at b, then black makes an interesting ko at a...

*Edit* I suppose :b3: could be played at x or y..... but white still gets the corner...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ |------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 3 2 1 . . . . . . .
$$ | . 9 6 5 8 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 7 O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
But now that I read it out after a short nap, the ko doesn't look so good...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ |------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 3 2 1 . . a b . . .
$$ | . . 6 5 7 . . c . . . .
$$ | . . 8 O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
This sequence white probably take the corner loke so, and play plays an extension to the side at a,b,or c..

Looking at this sequence in the full diagram...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 1 . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 5 7 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 8 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . d a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c b . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . f , . . . . . , . . . . g , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I would much prefer having a stone at abcd or e... so white can not extend... you also have the danger of white f.... However even with the danger of that, white still has their unprotected corner at around g that black can play to counter those...
*EDIT* I restructured the post..
I'm thinking...
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by Chew Terr »

topazg wrote:For observers and teammates:
I really hope Black plays there. Thoughts for observers to follow if it is confirmed :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 5 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If they do, I like this, or something like it. It denies their enclosure its ideal direction of play, takes the preferred direction from our 4-5, and threatens D17. I could say pretty much for sure that my suggestion would be somewhere near here, though I would have to consider the relative merits of playing a point or so in each direction.
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by Redundant »

Chew Terr wrote:
topazg wrote:For observers and teammates:
I really hope Black plays there. Thoughts for observers to follow if it is confirmed :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 5 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If they do, I like this, or something like it. It denies their enclosure its ideal direction of play, takes the preferred direction from our 4-5, and threatens D17. I could say pretty much for sure that my suggestion would be somewhere near here, though I would have to consider the relative merits of playing a point or so in each direction.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 5 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'm trying to figure out if this is too close to the enclosure. This makes black want even less to approach us from his shimari, and if somehow he tries to pressure us from above, we can always settle with C6 or C5, although C5 trades the corner aji to settle.
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topazg
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by topazg »

For teammates:
I would just like to say how happy my team members are making me :)
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Chew Terr
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by Chew Terr »

Redundant wrote:
Chew Terr wrote:
topazg wrote:For observers and teammates:
I really hope Black plays there. Thoughts for observers to follow if it is confirmed :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 5 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If they do, I like this, or something like it. It denies their enclosure its ideal direction of play, takes the preferred direction from our 4-5, and threatens D17. I could say pretty much for sure that my suggestion would be somewhere near here, though I would have to consider the relative merits of playing a point or so in each direction.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 5 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'm trying to figure out if this is too close to the enclosure. This makes black want even less to approach us from his shimari, and if somehow he tries to pressure us from above, we can always settle with C6 or C5, although C5 trades the corner aji to settle.
I really do like this, and think it's probably better than my prior suggestion. That extra space means that we seem to be less likely to become overly dense on the left. This move (and everything else we've talked about so far) kind of fits with my answer to your earlier question about overall strategy: Instead of necessarily playing for thickness or points, we focus on playing fast. Cover ground as quickly as we can while keeping all of our stones safe or expendable, so that we end the opening spread more efficiently around the board than our opponents, if we can help it. For that reason, your C9 is cool, because after looking at it, anything else looks slow.
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Black Internal chat:
Jordus wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ |------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 2 . 1 . . a . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . c b . . . .
$$ | . . . O e . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
...
True, the above 2 may be better, but it still ends up with white having a corner and black getting a side.
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Teamovitch #1 Move #5

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 5 , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Ok, it is for real this time. :)
I looked at P4. It is one of the standard approaches to the 3-5, but with the natural play in the corner, it looks like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . b , . . . . . , 9 . . . 5 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . 7 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
...'a' and 'b' are miai, and white with comes away with 2 shimaris or the only shimari. That should be a privilege that only black can get by having the first move. To find ourselves in such a position suggests that we are squandering the advantage of the first move.
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by Chew Terr »

If Red doesn't propse his C9, I will. If he does, I'll propose the aforementioned C10. While it's a little slower and less aggressive, it does work a little easier with prospective top left enclosure.
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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Re: Teamovitch #1

Post by Redundant »

I stick by my previous suggestion.
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