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95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=3105

Page 3 of 10

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:50 am
by emeraldemon
I agree the opening has been bad, but many players make to 7 kyu or so without understanding opening. If the midgame is strong, I'll believe balmung is 7 kyu.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:03 am
by Tommie
not for either player
Violence wrote:
I'd have to agree with you, Tommie.

At least back when I was 9k, I admitted that I had no idea what I was doing when I invaded hardcore like this.
Violence, for me it's 30 years ago for me that I was DDK to 5k
and I could grab some old kifu (I have some) to make probably even Balmung laugh.

I do not criticise the moves so much which go along a certain Go level (there will undoubtely also be many good ones among them),
it is this dicrepance that Balmung boasted in another thread having '1-3k fighting strength'
and losing by emotions,
while it appears to me that he has 10k fighting strength + boasting self-perception.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:18 am
by daniel_the_smith
Let's not be *too* hard on Balmung. He's actually being a good sport for playing this game after the last thread he started.

I think every go player goes through a phase where they think they know something about this game. Then reality eventually (and painfully) forces its way into their brain...

Eventually you have to stop making excuses for yourself and accept that you're not as good as you hoped.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:33 am
by balmung
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O B . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:35 am
by balmung
topazg wrote:Balmung:
balmung wrote:
I have strategy to build an upper right moyo while sacrificing the invasion stones.
Why did you invade here if you intend on sacrificing them - why did you decide not just to build the upper right moyo?
The invasion was a mistake I made when I had just woke up. So the best I can do now is try to gain profit from the stones.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:01 am
by Aphelion
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:06 am
by EdLee
Not for either player.
balmung wrote:So the best I can do now is try to gain profit from the stones.
No. Better is to simply forget those stones for now and move on (i.e. tenuki).
Continuing to play locally is being stubborn, throwing good money at bad
and only serves to help W -- removes bad aji for W and
gives W both more thickness and dead B stones.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:07 am
by balmung
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:20 am
by Violence
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 B O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 5 |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I hope Balmung is not considering this... this is pretty much the best thing ever for white.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:24 am
by Aphelion
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Lets make this exchange first

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:42 am
by balmung
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
in my opinion it was the better of the two responses aphelion had, but we will see how this plays out.
heres a variation
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B1-13cm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . 3 . 1 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 9 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 0 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
1-3 in the upper right are 11-13 I couldn't figure out how to get double digits in this diagram.

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:56 am
by EdLee
@balmung.
balmung wrote:I couldn't figure out how to get double digits in this diagram.
Like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ --------------
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. X . . . . . |
$$. . . , X 8 . |
$$. . . 7 6 9 . |
$$. . . 5 4 0 . |
$$. . . 3 1 2 . |
$$. . . O X O . |
$$. . . . O X . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . . X . . |
$$. . . . X . . |
$$. . . O . O . |
$$. . . . O . . |
$$. . . O X . . |
$$. . . , X . . |
$$. X . X . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$ --------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$ --------------
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. X . 3 . 1 . |
$$. . . , X O . |
$$. . . X O X 2 |
$$. . . X O O . |
$$. . . X X O . |
$$. . . O X O . |
$$. . . . O X . |
$$. . . O . . . |
$$. . . . X . . |
$$. . . . X . . |
$$. . . O . O . |
$$. . . . O . . |
$$. . . O X . . |
$$. . . , X . . |
$$. X . X . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . |
$$ --------------[/go]

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:54 am
by judicata
@Violence
Violence wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 B O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 5 |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I hope Balmung is not considering this... this is pretty much the best thing ever for white.
While this is obviously good for white, is there a local variation you would prefer? I agree with comments that tenuki is best so maybe b can use some aji later, but I don't see anything much better locally.

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:02 am
by Aphelion
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . W . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:30 am
by Violence
@judicata
Tenuki is the only option here.

The mentality here is to realize that you dun goofed, plain and simple. You might be able to utilize the aji of the stones... later... but right now, he's just helping white for an inferior exchange.

And ten bucks says that he'll feel comfortable with the sequence I mentioned.

It's quite common in many players to mess up, and then go into damage control mode, and then feel a bit proud of yourself for not totally falling apart, but this mentality can be dangerous. It's always important to recognize when you've fallen behind, and have the maturity to go:

Yeah... I'm losing... but... LOOK OVER THERE!
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Emphasizing the rest of the board is much more important than suddenly switching into sacrifice mode, unless you can see a clear sacrifice sequence that is both forced and good for you.
All times are UTC-07:00
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