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Big Brother Malkovich #4

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=3673

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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:13 pm
by Aphelion
I don't think its acceptable to tenuki to that double approah

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4

Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 1:57 pm
by topazg
Rejected!
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13 Move 13 - B:9(0) W:10(1)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . 1 . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . C . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
In some way it's frustrating to have a sente move made non-sente by a tenuki, and the double approach is pretty big. On the other hand, White still has to find a way of handling the left side, and the top right temperature has now risen pretty high. It will be interesting to see where the dust settles. One thing I don't think we could allow is this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13 Move 13 - B:10(1) W:10(1)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . a . . a . . W . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . W . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Now the marked White stones (and :w14:) all work wonderfully together. I had wondered about resetting to one of the "a" points as well, as that looks fairly interesting due to White's weaknesses generally (and my correcting here will thicken white up wrt the top side), but I think standard joseki works better in a BB game where corrections are limited. We'll see what MHT does :)

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4

Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 3:46 pm
by Mnemonic
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13 Move 14 - B:9(0) W:10(1)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . 2 X . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Yay, first correction!
And it's not my fault. I shouldn't be too happy as I know I messed up the joseki in the top left :cry:
Anywho, the response to this move came natural. I'm still a bit worried about a pincer on our top left group seeing as black is so strong, and this move helps, even if it's far away.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4

Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 3:49 pm
by Violence
Approved.
I would not have changed Simba's move. I think solidly taking territory like that is just fine.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 2:11 am
by Simba
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13 Move 14 - B:9(0) W:10(2)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Still don't think my last move was that bad, but ah well. This one is completely standard. I really don't like this though - white is going to end up with some stones from this joseki that point towards the left and work nicely with what he has in the top left already. Sure, if I sacrificed the corner (which white would likely need two more moves to fully kill) he'd get that too, but at least then we'd have all the left, and I'd get to play somewhere else as well. I'd be hoping to end this joseki in sente then play C10 again but if topaz is not happy with C10, there's not really any point wasting /another/ correction to try to play it :P . I considered the P17 joseki here too but white just gets too much nice stuff pointing towards the left again.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 2:18 am
by topazg
Approved
The more I think about C10 in hindsight, the more I think it's fine and big and good. I'm still happy with the approval too as the idea of sacrificing the top right really doesn't appeal so much, and we aren't about to do that any time soon. Hopefully we'll get C10 later, or something similar sized.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 2:35 am
by Mnemonic
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13 Move 16 - B:9(1) W:10(2)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Another easy move. I'm expecting a something like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13 Move 14 - B:9(0) W:10(2)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]
I looked at blacks block for a second and decided it would be suicide to play it. Really nice to have a stone at Q14 :D

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 1:24 pm
by Violence
Approved.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4

Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 1:53 pm
by Simba
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13 Move 16 - B:9(1) W:10(3)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Standard joseki, not a ton to say here. I still want to play C10... Very tempted to play it again after this joseki if I end in sente here... Hopefully Graham won't smack me about too bad about it next time I see him in real life :D ... I suppose the worst that can happen is he changes it again, but I'm really not at all convinced it's a bad move. But I sadly don't have the vision of a dan player just yet...! I guess his problem with playing it before might've been accentuated by the fact that the top right was in danger, so if I can settle here in sente...

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:12 am
by topazg
Approved

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4

Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:39 am
by Mnemonic
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13 Move 16 - B:9(2) W:10(3)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Just following my previous plans.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #4

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:39 pm
by Simba
Hmm, no sign of Violence in a while. He last logged onto the forum on July 26th it said but this thread has been dormant for over a month. Maybe we should send him an email reminder/check if he's still interested? I just don't want to seem impatient is all :) .
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