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151. Shadonra vs. illluck

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=5290

Page 3 of 13

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:56 pm
by hyperpape
I feel like the shoulder hit was a waste and black has a decent advantage now.

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:58 pm
by illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Again as expected. Seems like we have similar judgements :)

Right now I am not really concerned about reading exact variations. It just feels like jumping out is important, and I don't see any immediate local refutations to this (though later there's some annoying cut aji). Running out puts some pressure on his two stones below. I feel like ignore his response (if he strengthens those two stones) to play something around top.

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:01 pm
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I wonder what you want. Is it sente to reduce, or do you want to attack me?

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:09 pm
by illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . O . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'm torn between responding and not responding. I ended up deciding to respond because if I were to hane and black extends, then I leave a better local result before I tenuki. So therefore if I am sure that black will respond to the hane then responding is strictly better than not responding (alpha-beta pruning? :p).

Then it's a question of whether I want to hane or extend. Normally extend is better, but since I want to tenuki after I don't want to leave more options for black (O3 aji annoying). So I will hane.

Black will either extend or tenuki. It feels to me that allowing me to atari at Q7 is too much, so I expect the extension.
Edit: Opps, presumably I should actually post my response XD

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:12 pm
by Chew Terr
Hey, you did mean to play a stone, right (Guessing from your comment) ?

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:13 pm
by Uberdude
illluck doesn't seem to be playing well at all, I think he has played better against me on OGS.

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:17 pm
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Ok.

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:23 pm
by illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Mmm, I keep contradicting my previous posts by not playing tenuki. This indecisiveness is probably not a good sign :p

I want to consider this is a sort of a probe - if black plays a bamboo joint I'll play from the bottom and try to force black to run out (strengths my weak group in the process). If black plays the tiger's mouth I will tenuki and leave the second-line hane in reserve.

Edit: Actually, perhaps if he plays bamboo I should not play from the bottom, but rather from the right-side. Playing from bottom feels a bit risky as he can attack my weak group on a large scale.

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:33 pm
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Good shape never did no one no good.

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:45 pm
by illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I hope to strengthen the group in sente so that I can play on the top. I am not sure how to deal with the top yet, so I'll see if I can push black's group around a bit (probably not much because it's actually quite strong) and if I can strengthen my weak group by enough so I can play more deeply on the top (at c, for example, rather than a/b).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X c . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . a b X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:55 am
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . O . . . O 9 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:01 pm
by illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . O . . . O X 0 . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Not much to be said, I'd rather keep the two stones. Black can cut my right side group off from the bottom, but then my bottom becomes rather stronger.

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:11 am
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . O . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Sorry for the wait, I've been busy the last few days.
Try as I might, I can't read a way to survive if I tenuki to the top (where I'd like to fix some weaknesses). So I have to play this.

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:41 am
by illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . O . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
No worries, take your time :)
the weakness in my lower right is a bit worrisome, but I think I need to continue strengthening my group and see if I can play K3 in sente in a bit (but top seems more urgent).

Re: 151. Shadonra vs. illluck

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:22 am
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . X . O . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Blank.
All times are UTC-07:00
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