In the 2nd variation, white r9 will often be better than s8 as it also connects but stops black playing r9 himself to build some outside influence.lovelove wrote:Lecture 18
Invasion after joseki (Part 2)
How to Become a Dan
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Uberdude
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Re: How to Become a Dan
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Re: How to Become a Dan
R9 instead of S8 is a outdated Japanese joseki, which is now considered inferior, from modern research.Uberdude wrote:In the 2nd variation, white r9 will often be better than s8 as it also connects but stops black playing r9 himself to build some outside influence.lovelove wrote:Lecture 18
Invasion after joseki (Part 2)
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Re: How to Become a Dan
Can you please explain the change in understanding?lovelove wrote:R9 instead of S8 is a outdated Japanese joseki, which is now considered inferior, from modern research.Uberdude wrote:In the 2nd variation, white r9 will often be better than s8 as it also connects but stops black playing r9 himself to build some outside influence.lovelove wrote:Lecture 18
Invasion after joseki (Part 2)
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Re: How to Become a Dan
Check my PM.Uberdude wrote:Can you please explain the change in understanding?lovelove wrote:R9 instead of S8 is a outdated Japanese joseki, which is now considered inferior, from modern research.Uberdude wrote:
In the 2nd variation, white r9 will often be better than s8 as it also connects but stops black playing r9 himself to build some outside influence.
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Re: How to Become a Dan
From the PM, it seems lovelove misunderstood me. He thought I was suggesting the following play at r9 for black rather than the nobi to the second line. my understanding of this move is that it can be playable, but it makes white get stronger on the outside so the second line move should be considered the default best move.
What I was suggesting was r9 for white in place of s8 when black connects in the corner on the outside, allowing the s6 descent in sente:
q8 and s8 are now miai, so white is connected. The advantage of this move over s8 is that black can less easily do something useful with his r8 stone, as shown in the next diagram where he builds influence (and white increases his territory in return). A downside of r9 is that if black plays s8 even though you capture the 2 stones it is only one eye so if black gets stronger around this aji could be annoying, but s8 similarly is not an unconditional 2 eyes though the eyespace does seem slightly better to me.
P.S. Also s4 at t4 is better yose.
What I was suggesting was r9 for white in place of s8 when black connects in the corner on the outside, allowing the s6 descent in sente:
q8 and s8 are now miai, so white is connected. The advantage of this move over s8 is that black can less easily do something useful with his r8 stone, as shown in the next diagram where he builds influence (and white increases his territory in return). A downside of r9 is that if black plays s8 even though you capture the 2 stones it is only one eye so if black gets stronger around this aji could be annoying, but s8 similarly is not an unconditional 2 eyes though the eyespace does seem slightly better to me.
P.S. Also s4 at t4 is better yose.
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Re: How to Become a Dan
Yes,Uberdude wrote:
is what I learned from a Korean haengma book.In anycase, the push at
is what's most important. It's a move to remember.It's even more fun when you use it to kill a group
Teaching game I remember:
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Re: How to Become a Dan
Lecture 20
Trick move (Part 1)
*Always look at the former branch first.*
Trick move (Part 1)
*Always look at the former branch first.*
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Re: How to Become a Dan
Lecture 21
Trick move (Part 2)
*Always look at the former branch first.*
Trick move (Part 2)
*Always look at the former branch first.*
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Re: How to Become a Dan
Lecture 22
Trick move (Part 3)
*Always look at the former branch first.*
Trick move (Part 3)
*Always look at the former branch first.*
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Re: How to Become a Dan
Lecture 23
Trick move (Part 4)
*Always look at the former branch first.*
Trick move (Part 4)
*Always look at the former branch first.*
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jts
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Re: How to Become a Dan
Lovelove, thank you again for posting this series. A question about 22: is it "no ko" in the sense that no threat is big enough, or in the sense that w can't win the ko by connecting?
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Re: How to Become a Dan
Lecture 24
Trick move (Part 5)
*Always look at the former branch first.*
Trick move (Part 5)
*Always look at the former branch first.*
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Re: How to Become a Dan
You are right in both. In addition, that ko is a direct ko for black, but approach ko for white; white needs to ignore black's ko threat twice to win the ko.jts wrote:Lovelove, thank you again for posting this series. A question about 22: is it "no ko" in the sense that no threat is big enough, or in the sense that w can't win the ko by connecting?
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