GoPanda 2 browser client

[bearzbear]

I have attached two screen grabs in what is my screens full res, as I see it.
It's 1480 wide on this laptop.

The first is the "normal" screen without a game up, showing unfiltered player list, and
not many things happening on the main terminal screen. That could include shouts, tells, and channel chat, plus
stats and other related things...

The second shows a game window up.
One can- but I did not think to - put up the SAME things in the window next to the board, but it would include Kibitz, etc... for the game. One can put up more than one board to observe...

I also opened the menu pop up that does the various "customizations" just to show...

I'd strongly suggest getting a copy of the program.

Thanks.

WINIGC-2.jpg (326.71 KiB) Viewed 12888 times

( I put both of them under Hide tags, but inadvertently deleted WINIGC-1.jpg without saving it first. Sorry! -- Ed )
( After you upload the photo via "Add the file", click the button "Place inline" next to "Attachments".
Then, use the Hide tags to hide the inlined text. )

[bearzbear]

whoa!

I did not want them inline... user error? Dunno.

Sorry, if there was another way to do it, I missed it

[direwolf]

Like my earlier post said and I agree, wingic was a great client. To bad development was stopped on it. I paid for it, but no longer use it because I am on a mac. glgo is so limiting. There was a sister program to it winmgt, that was nice to replay sgf files and comment/create tree variations.

[EdLee]

bearzbear, Thanks for posting the two screenshots.
I was trying to help by hiding both of them inside Hide tags,
but in the process inadvertently deleted WINIGC-1.jpg before saving it first. Sorry!

I remember using WinIGC about 10 years ago when I first discovered IGS,
but stopped using it very quickly after I found gGo, because --

(The stones, board, and the GUI of WinIGC in general are very ugly to me.
I cannot stand looking at any of it even for a moment, let alone having to watch or play a game with it.
I cannot use it even if its functionality is much better than gIgo's.
So that's another angle (user base) to consider. Thanks.)

[Charlie]

Here are some things I like about that screenshot. Things that should be taken into serious consideration in the development of a new client:

• Komi and Captures are readily visible. (I have not yet found a client that makes it easy to see the komi.)
• Event customization is a GREAT feature.
• The board and stones take most of the available real-estate, as they should.

[EdLee]

• Komi and Captures are readily visible. (I have not yet found a client that makes it easy to see the komi.)
• Event customization is a GREAT feature.
• The board and stones take most of the available real-estate, as they should.

Yes to all three.

[ez4u]

Don't forget the 'Big Clocks' option. That was what I missed the most from WinIGC.

[bearzbear]

EdLee, you have apparently misunderstood what I was saying.

The thrust is to get the fucntionality first, then get the aesthetics correct.

Winigc permitted the changing of the board background pattern. You could have taken a jpeg
of real wood and put it in, if you wanted to go to the effort. Also the stones could be shown
as rendered/shaded stones, but I did not prefer that.

I can turn that on and do a screen shot... but that's absolutely not the point.
THE point is that this is 15 year old software, and should not be compared in terms of visual fidelity to
the fancy high-res graphics available today. Otoh, "eye candy" can be easily overdone, and easily made so
that it seems appealing, but really is only appealing to a certain segment.

For example, (to illustrate via a bit of excess) what might appeal to a 14 yo female in terms of visuals
would likely be very different than what would appeal to a 60 yo male engineer. The use of *pink* jumps right
out...

What I am attempting to advocate for is the maximum in flexibility and user customizability, within reason,
of course. Keeping in mind that a majority of users will merely accept whatever they get, and have,
it still makes sense to consider what was done 15 years ago and at least equal what that now antique
software was able to do.

This version of WinIgc was not the first version, and is maybe 2-3 years into its life... iirc.

I'll try to put up that jpg again...

[inline-hide][/inline-hide]

EDIT: Hmmm... most forum software makes this much easier to do... not three steps. And... oops, that did not work

WINIGC-1.jpg (281.54 KiB) Viewed 12858 times

( Fixed the attachment for you. -- Ed )

[bearzbear]

Ok, here is the not very good and old bitmapped stones, but showing the menu for customizing to
whatever you prefer... photoshop would make it possible to shoot ur own stones, if you wanted to...etc.

And, EdLee, sorry to come at you with this, but when you said that you couldn't bear to look at the board
on winigc, does that mean that you also can't bear to look at the primitive diagrams in go books too? Wondering.

Another thought, building a house? Get an Architect and a Structural Engineer. The Interior Decorator comes later...

Let's remember that's 15 year old software that works better than the current software by a fairly wide margin, and is more flexible and powerful. Comparing graphics to software developed when SVGA was a big deal, makes little sense.

Function first, then form, finally tweak the aesthetics.







_-_-

WINIGC-STONE-OPT.jpg (269.68 KiB) Viewed 12856 times

( Also fixed the photo attachment for you. -- Ed. )

[ez4u]

Yo Bear! You want your picture to look like this when you are done.

Code: Select all

[Hide][attachment=0]WINIGC-STONE-OPT.jpg[/attachment][/Hide]

[bearzbear]

oh...

I tried this:
[inline-hide][/inline-hide]

obviously, the wrong thing... ok, next time...

sorry.

wonder what <[inline-hide][/inline-hide]> does?

_-_-

[EdLee]

EdLee, you have apparently misunderstood what I was saying.
The thrust is to get the fucntionality first, then get the aesthetics correct.

bearzbear -- no, I completely understood what you were saying.
What you said was the thrust FOR YOU was functionality first, then looks later.

What I said was, for me, of course some functionality is important, but looks are also very important,
and has to be weighed case by case.
Again for me, in the case of WinIgc, its functionality is outweighed by its ugly looks.
Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying.

(I'll fix your second attached photo next. Thanks for re-posting it! )

And, EdLee, sorry to come at you with this, but when you said that you couldn't bear to look at the board
on winigc, does that mean that you also can't bear to look at the primitive diagrams in go books too? Wondering.

No problem. In most Go books, the "primitive" diagrams are much prettier than WinIGC, so I have no problems with them.

Another thought, building a house? Get an Architect and a Structural Engineer. The Interior Decorator comes later...

That's OK -- again, in the case of WinIGC, it appears to me the interior decorator never showed up.

[direwolf]

I think people are missing the point.. there was a point in time where the stones used was state of the art. but over time tecnology changes, but if the app was continued to be supported, I would think that would change. If I remember right, there was a stone and board images from tweets personal set that were very good. The other thing was the high customization of the client. now you are stuck with what the developer tells you that you need

[bearzbear]

EdLee, I give up.

If you do not understand that that is 15 year old software and can't get past that idea and stop
talking about how IT looks, then there is no way to hold a reasonable conversation.

Are you one of the developers of GoPanda2??

If so, please take the time to reconsider your strongly felt convictions, and think this through
in a more logical way.

To use an analogy, maybe that will clarify?

Imagine buying a new car.
Yet while that car has nice seats, fancy gauges, excellent styling, it is actually lower power, has
fewer features and doesn't work as well as a 15 year old car? That's in essence what you are saying.
You still want the fancy looking car over the one that works better?

If that was my only choice, I'd want the old one.

The best choice is to improve upon the old car and have the updated styling and looks, as long as that does not come at the expense of the basic underlying functionality.

Got it now?

I think perhaps more of an "engineering" approach is called for. This as opposed to an "artistic" approach to the problem. Personally I tend to work from the artistic approach, and often find the engineering approach to be too narrow and dry, but it still can't be ignored and disregarded.

_-_-

[topazg]

@bearzbear, I think Ed gets your point completely, but is trying to let you know he approaches client desirability from the other way around. I'm a functionality first kinda guy too (and am very happy with command line prompts), but I know plenty of people that work the other way (aesthetics first, functionality second).