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Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=152

Page 28 of 51

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:16 am
by daniel_the_smith
Question for Gresil:
Can you elucidate on why r12 is "terrible"?


Comment for observers:
Were this a club game I would play r12 without thinking... but maybe it's wrong. I will think about this a little more.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:31 am
by Gresil
Do the rules of BBM allow conversing with superiors?

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:56 am
by daniel_the_smith
I just was curious to see more of your thought process, I wasn't going to respond to it... Hopefully that's ok... You don't have to respond, of course.

(For those who shouldn't read the hidden section, I asked Gresil to explain a statement he made in his hidden section...)

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:04 am
by Gresil
Well, okay. For black and the audience:

Bad pruning.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 95B W43 B48
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O . . X X 3 . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O 2 . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 1 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I saw that far. Because :w2: obviously forces :b3: and lets white continue with sente, I dismissed R12 as a totally obviously gote thank-you move. It didn't occur to me to examine what sort of a local continuation white has.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:47 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Gresil wrote:Do the rules of BBM allow conversing with superiors?



You can say anything going up. He can can only say one of two things going down.

The general idea is that any player is not supposed to get any help from above. You can make a move, and argue at length about why it is good. But your big brother is limited to a binary reply: "approve" or "not approve" when replying to you. He can, of course, make any kind of comments to the observers and to his bigger brother.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:27 am
by daniel_the_smith
Change of plans:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 97B W45 B48
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X B . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . C , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]




I think we end up with some sort of capturing race with the original move:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 97A W43 B48
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . 0 . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 2 . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O 3 4 1 , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . 5 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . 7 8 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White has at least 7 external liberties, black has 5 but can make an eye. But even if we win the race, our stones on the right side will most likely die.

With my move, that string of black stones is a lot closer to being able to handle itself, and we can get the first move at the top to prevent a capturing race.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 97A W43 B48
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . 3 . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 2 . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 1 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm pretty sure this :b3: destroys white (a and b are miai), so white can't play :w2: here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 97A W43 B48
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . 3 a X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O b . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O 2 . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 1 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:58 pm
by Violence
Let's end this.


Not Approved.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 97B W46 B48
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O B . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X C . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . C , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:39 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
To observers & Shapenaji:
The options are getting fewer here, and certain moves are becoming inevitable:

First, we must maintain the four marked stones shown below. Any fight depends on them.
So when black plays 1, we must counter with 2 like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . 2 . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X W W 1 . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X W X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X W X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black, of course, must defend with 3, and that leaves our four stones hanging again, so we must play 4 like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . 4 2 . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now black has several variations with move 5:
They can capture one of our groups with 5, but then we come back and kill a larger group with 6 like this:

    Click Here To Show Diagram Code
    [go]$$Bc First variation on move 5
    $$ ---------------------------------------
    $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . 6 . . O X X . . |
    $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
    $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . 4 2 . X O . . |
    $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O 5 . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
    $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


A second possibility is like this: black will play 5 something like this below, and we respond with 6 which threatens 'a':

    Click Here To Show Diagram Code
    [go]$$Bc Second variation on move 5
    $$ ---------------------------------------
    $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . 5 . . O X X . . |
    $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X b O O X . . |
    $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . 4 2 c X O a . |
    $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O 6 . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
    $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


    Black appears to be ahead on liberties, but 'c' is self-atari, while 'b' provokes us to defend with 'c', thereby gaining a tempo.

    It continues like this:

    Click Here To Show Diagram Code
    [go]$$Bc
    $$ ---------------------------------------
    $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . 5 . . O X X . . |
    $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
    $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . 4 2 . X C 7 . |
    $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O 6 . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 9 0 . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . 8 . . . |
    $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
    $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


    ...and black has two liberties while all the surrounding groups have 3+ liberties. Black dies in a ladder or a crane's nest.

A third possibility for move #5 is to shut off liberties a bit faster like this:

    Click Here To Show Diagram Code
    [go]$$Bc Third variation on move 5
    $$ ---------------------------------------
    $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
    $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
    $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 5 4 2 . X O . . |
    $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
    $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


    Now black would be ahead if white tried the sequence shown above, so white must play 6 like this:

      Click Here To Show Diagram Code
      [go]$$Bc
      $$ ---------------------------------------
      $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . c . 6 . . . . . |
      $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . a b . O X X . . |
      $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
      $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 5 4 2 . X O . . |
      $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
      $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
      $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
      $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
      $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
      $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
      $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

      ...which threatens 'a', 'b', and 'c'

      So, black has to capture with 7, and then white has enough liberties to have two threats on the right side:

      Click Here To Show Diagram Code
      [go]$$Bc
      $$ ---------------------------------------
      $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
      $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . 7 . . O X X . . |
      $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X C X . O O X . . |
      $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 5 4 2 . X O b . |
      $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
      $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O 8 . |
      $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
      $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . a . . |
      $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
      $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
      $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


      ...and now white is threatening both 'a' and 'b'.



So, my analysis is that only the first variation of move 5 does not lead to big problems for black. Thus black has to continue like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc First variation on move 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . 6 . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . 4 2 . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O 5 . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O 7 . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So we end up with this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Joaz's best guess of how the next 8 moves will go
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . W . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I have no idea how it will go from here...

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:36 pm
by Chew Terr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 98A W46 B48
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X W . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Seems like an easy choice this time, though our opponent's last move was good. This move is very sente and helps a group that needs it. Black will have to extend (or capture the sacrificed stones at M14). We can then extend again in sente or connect our two white groups in sente. After that, if our group is cut off, we'll have to figure out life... may as well take any forcing moves we can to make it easier.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:26 pm
by shapenaji
To Observers:
Well, Chew Terr actually is thinking along the right lines, but his order is a little messed up,

Joaz has a number of nice sequences, one of which was something I was originally thinking of:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Second variation on move 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . 5 . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X b O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . 4 2 c X O a . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O 6 . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . b . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This looks really good, (a and b are miai) but it's also complicated... and branches a lot, as Joaz discovered.

EDIT: Also, why "b" works:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Second variation on move 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 2 3 . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O 8 1 4 6 . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . 9 , 5 7 . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]




I'm having trouble deciding whether to go with this, OR, along Chew Terr's logic:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 7 fills
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . 3 4 X O 5 . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 2 X X 6 . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . 8 . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Which gives up the four stones nicely and gets incredible outside thickness, As cool looking as the first one is, the second one is so straightforward, and so solid, that I think it's better

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:53 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
I disapprove.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 98B W46 B50
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . W . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X C . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As indicated in my two previous posts on the subject, these stones are essential:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 98B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X @ @ X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X @ X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X @ X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And inviting these stones to expand southward like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O # O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O # # # # 1 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . 2 . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...simply weakens these stones:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X @ @ . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...which ultimately are more valuable than these:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X @ @ @ @ . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O a . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Those four stones are just decoys to keep black busy. The real fight will be about 'a'.


BTW, I think that N16 was an overplay. It should have been at M17. :)

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:02 pm
by shapenaji
I approve.
I should know better than this, the other sequence I laid out was simple, but I just can't back down from this position, I feel white is better off in this fight, to back down just smacks of cowardice, and cowardice never made anyone better at this game

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:28 am
by Shaddy
Joaz Banbeck wrote:To observers & Shapenaji:
The options are getting fewer here, and certain moves are becoming inevitable:

First, we must maintain the four marked stones shown below. Any fight depends on them.
So when black plays 1, we must counter with 2 like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . 2 . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X W W 1 . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X W X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X W X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black, of course, must defend with 3, and that leaves our four stones hanging again, so we must play 4 like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . 4 2 . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now black has several variations with move 5:
They can capture one of our groups with 5, but then we come back and kill a larger group with 6 like this:

    Click Here To Show Diagram Code
    [go]$$Bc First variation on move 5
    $$ ---------------------------------------
    $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . 6 . . O X X . . |
    $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
    $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . 4 2 . X O . . |
    $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O 5 . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
    $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


A second possibility is like this: black will play 5 something like this below, and we respond with 6 which threatens 'a':

    Click Here To Show Diagram Code
    [go]$$Bc Second variation on move 5
    $$ ---------------------------------------
    $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . 5 . . O X X . . |
    $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X b O O X . . |
    $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . 4 2 c X O a . |
    $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O 6 . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
    $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


    Black appears to be ahead on liberties, but 'c' is self-atari, while 'b' provokes us to defend with 'c', thereby gaining a tempo.

    It continues like this:

    Click Here To Show Diagram Code
    [go]$$Bc
    $$ ---------------------------------------
    $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . 5 . . O X X . . |
    $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
    $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . 4 2 . X C 7 . |
    $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O 6 . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 9 0 . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . 8 . . . |
    $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
    $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


    ...and black has two liberties while all the surrounding groups have 3+ liberties. Black dies in a ladder or a crane's nest.

A third possibility for move #5 is to shut off liberties a bit faster like this:

    Click Here To Show Diagram Code
    [go]$$Bc Third variation on move 5
    $$ ---------------------------------------
    $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
    $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
    $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 5 4 2 . X O . . |
    $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
    $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


    Now black would be ahead if white tried the sequence shown above, so white must play 6 like this:

      Click Here To Show Diagram Code
      [go]$$Bc
      $$ ---------------------------------------
      $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . c . 6 . . . . . |
      $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . a b . O X X . . |
      $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
      $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 5 4 2 . X O . . |
      $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
      $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
      $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
      $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
      $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
      $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
      $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

      ...which threatens 'a', 'b', and 'c'

      So, black has to capture with 7, and then white has enough liberties to have two threats on the right side:

      Click Here To Show Diagram Code
      [go]$$Bc
      $$ ---------------------------------------
      $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
      $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . 7 . . O X X . . |
      $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X C X . O O X . . |
      $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 5 4 2 . X O b . |
      $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
      $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O 8 . |
      $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
      $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . a . . |
      $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
      $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
      $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
      $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


      ...and now white is threatening both 'a' and 'b'.



So, my analysis is that only the first variation of move 5 does not lead to big problems for black. Thus black has to continue like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc First variation on move 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . 6 . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . 4 2 . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O 5 . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O 7 . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So we end up with this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Joaz's best guess of how the next 8 moves will go
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . W . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I have no idea how it will go from here...



observers:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . 7 . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X C X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 5 4 2 . X O b . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O 8 . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . a . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

now black b, w a, then, this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . 5 O 3 . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . 4 O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X 2 O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O 1 X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

and now what?

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:20 am
by topazg
EDIT: Restructure as was getting long and messy

To Shaddy and observers:

In your last diagram, I still read White ahead, as follows:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . 6 . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . X O X 1 4 . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 2 O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X O O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 5 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O 7 . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Is there something that doesn't work about this for White?


My alternative idea

However, I quite like this:

Line A

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . 9 5 8 . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . 7 O 3 6 . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . 4 O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X 2 O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O 1 X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Line B

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . 6 5 8 . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . 7 O 3 9 . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . 4 O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X 2 O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O 1 X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc a and b are miai?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . b O 4 . a 1 O 3 O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 2 O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X O O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Line C

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . 9 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . 7 6 O 3 8 . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . 4 O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X 2 O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O 1 X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White looks a liberty behind in all of these... for example, on the first one:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . X O 3 O 4 . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 2 O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X O O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O 1 . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X X O . 6 . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . X O 3 O 1 4 . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 2 O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X O O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O 5 . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Can White resist this ?


Full sequence from current position:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . 7 . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 5 4 2 . X O 9 . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O 8 . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . 0 . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O 3 . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . 4 O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X 2 O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O 1 X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:28 am
by schilds
topaz:
White p18 instead of o18?


[edit]I mucked whom I was talking to, so I'll just change it back to what I originally had since it's been replied to.
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