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Teamovitch #1

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=2198

Page 28 of 42

Re: Teamovitch #1

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:25 am
by topazg
@Red:

Thanks, I wondered about :w3:, but wasn't clear on what impact it had on the aji - are you aiming at:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 X 2 . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 , 3 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 1 , 3 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 6 9 . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@Obs:

If it's the latter, I think we should take :w1: @ :w3: directly.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 1 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Teamovitch #1

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:43 am
by Redundant
@Topaz:
I'm aiming at taking gote to make the left side huge by removing the aji :D

Not sure what's the best way to do that, but there seem to be plenty of options.

Re: Teamovitch #1

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:59 am
by topazg
Redundant wrote:@Topaz:
I'm aiming at taking gote to make the left side huge by removing the aji :D

Not sure what's the best way to do that, but there seem to be plenty of options.


Hehe, yeah, that makes some sense, ok :)

Re: Teamovitch #1

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:30 am
by Joaz Banbeck
It is the only sane reply so I'm not waiting for something else.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . 4 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X 5 . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Teamovitch #1

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:51 am
by fwiffo
Black internal chat:
I'm getting a little nervous; white has no weak groups and their influence has dominion over big swaths of the board. Obviously, that can be reduced, but we also still have a big clunky group to deal with.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ {LN K6 C7}
$$ {LN K11 D15}
$$ {LN N9 Q14}[/go]

Re: Teamovitch #1

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:55 am
by tj86430
WIC/Suggestion:

I assume Chew is suggesting M12, Red will suggest C16 and K12 isn't any better than last time, so I'll try to come up with something new.

E17 is one option. What else is there....O11 looks nice locally, but it's not very big, neither is anything in the lower right corner. C6 is one option, but it's smallish as well, and invites black to invade top left. What about reducing blacks bottom left and building our center with something like G6 - it just doesn't look right.

I don't know, I'll nominate E17.

Re: Teamovitch #1

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:36 pm
by Redundant
I stick by my suggestion.

Re: Teamovitch #1

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:37 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
fwiffo wrote:Black internal chat:
I'm getting a little nervous; white has no weak groups and their influence has dominion over big swaths of the board.

BIC:
Then maybe we should think about creating some weak white groups and/or increasing our influence?

But we are ahead in territory, I think. Unless white takes a gote move to finish of R8

Re: Teamovitch #1

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:46 pm
by fwiffo
For observers:
I recently read somewhere about some snack food from the 70s called "Screaming Yellow Zonkers", made famous by the humorous copy on the box.

The Disappearing Zonker Trick: After putting on your magician's outfit, look around the house for a handkerchief, two hard boiled eggs, and a small piece of radium. Then take seven Zonkers and place them neatly into the exact center of the handkerchief. Two eggs are arranged near each other and under your hands. Tie a half-hitch knot in the radium. Then make the seven Zonkers disappear. Your friends will be amazed.

:D

Re: Teamovitch #1

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:52 pm
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X 6 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X 3 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . 4 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X 5 . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@team:

I think Black needs to play carefully for two eyes here. Let's see what we can do :)

Re: Teamovitch #1

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:05 pm
by Chew Terr
WIC:
Actually, I was thinking about not suggesting the cut. The cut gives us a ton of central thickness. Alternatively, however, we could simply take moves in the corner in sente. At this point, we could try to get the corner points in sente with a slide to S3 (big, as it looks sente for life of the group). After that, black will almost certainly fix the cutting point in gote, allowing us to take a move in the top corner. Basically, if it's a choice between taking points in the corner, or take a move in the middle that could possibly become dame later, I'll take the profit and feel good about the attack. Chasing this group helped us build points on the right (kind of), so we can probably be happy with the results of attacking the black group.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 My suggestion
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . 4 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X 5 . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If Topazg disagrees with this thinking, he can definitely take your move in the top left, and then we can return to the cut. Similarly, if you guys see a better move in the corner, please point it out.

Re: Teamovitch #1

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:18 pm
by topazg
Hold on Black, I may have made a mistake!

~Team:

And particularly Chew - sorry, from your last one I had thought that was a trigger :(

Would you rather go with the :w46: in the last dia as your proposal?

Re: Teamovitch #1

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:40 pm
by Chew Terr
Nevermind, no mistake! I forgot I made a trigger for this move. =)

Whoops, forgot I made a trigger a few moves ago. Anyway, I like both the cut and the scoop, so this should be fine. If worst comes to worse, this works well with anything on top.

Re: Teamovitch #1

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:44 pm
by topazg
Ok to go Black, no mistake after all :)

Ah, sorry about that anyway, I still should have waited - for some reason I thought you weren't posting because in effect, you'd already put forward your suggestion, but I should have asked :-?

It only seems polite having posted it to go with it now, so we'll see what happens! At least the top should become even more interesting this way!

Re: Teamovitch #1

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:53 pm
by Chew Terr
Now that it's moot, did you have a preference between cutting first or scooping the corner first? There may be better corner moves, as well, I'm just curious if one stratagem is better than the other.
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