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#238: iseijin vs Marcus

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=10485

Page 4 of 16

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:35 am
by iseijin
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . 0 X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trying to make him heavy and push him towards my strength, the shimari.

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:02 pm
by EdLee
iseijin wrote:Trying to make him heavy and push him towards my strength, the shimari.
Trying to make B heavy is OK, but B may not comply.
If B does extend up, W still has a weakness at H3.

Also, the shimari is not exactly "strength" — it's not weak, either —
it's not even cash yet.

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:08 pm
by EdLee
Later, B has this kind of annoying thing:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . 3 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . W X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:20 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . 1 . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . O X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Only move, I think. I expect he might squeeze me with O3. H3 and K5 both seem interesting points to continue with if he does so. If he doesn't squeeze me, I can try P3 or Q2.

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:27 pm
by iseijin
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . O X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Keeping pressure on black while helping my stones on the left a bit.
I looked at one point to the right of :w42: , but if he plays on L5 then he can split my stones.

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:17 pm
by EdLee
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm41
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . b . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . 1 . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . O X . a . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Marcus wrote:Only move, I think. I expect he might squeeze me with (a).
Not sure if :b41: is the only move, but it's certainly a first feeling.
But :white: (a) is too soft -- B would be very happy to jump to (b), etc.

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:22 pm
by EdLee
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . b 2 a . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . W 1 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . O X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Possible continuation. Then W can choose between push (a) or connect (b).

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:11 pm
by Bill Spight
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . O C . . . . C . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . 3 . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . O X . . C O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b43: looks like a flexible point, aiming at any of the :ec: points. :)

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:25 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . O X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think I'll probe here and see what he does. There are a number of options available to him, and I can respond based on that.

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:36 pm
by iseijin
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . O X . . 4 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't want to give him the possibility of a cross-cut with P2 because of the forcing moves he'd then have.

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:41 pm
by Bill Spight
Edit: Unhidden.

I am going to risk prediction. ;)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . X . . . , 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . O X . 6 4 O 7 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I am pretty sure of :w44:.

Even more sure now that I can see it. ;)

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:58 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . O 5 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I now have the option to live in the corner with a tripod shape. I'll just leave that there for now and see if I can move out with my iron pillar. There's still some aji at H3 I can exploit, and I think Q2 might haunt my opponent's mind a bit, too.

Attaching to try and gain some strength (that's the theory, right?) ...

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:05 pm
by iseijin
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't want him to get out too easily.
I'm not sure if black can live in the color starting with R3, but it's not a priority now to do something there.

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:14 pm
by Marcus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . O X 7 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Building a heavy group ... something might have gone wrong here ... :mrgreen:

Re: #238: iseijin vs Marcus

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:31 pm
by Bill Spight
Edit: Unhidden.

Marcus wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . X . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . O X 7 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . O X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Building a heavy group ... something might have gone wrong here ... :mrgreen:


Indeed. ;)
All times are UTC-07:00
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