Life In 19x19

I kept trying to find ways to deviate, because I don't want to give him the star point on the side, but I couldn't really find a good spot. I think I have to take a small consolation in the fact that the bottom left is low.

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[go]$$Bcm18
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . , . . . 1 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . 8 . 0 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . 7 6 . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . 4 . . 3 9 O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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[go]$$Bcm18
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O 7 , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . 8 . . . . . . 6 . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . 3 O . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X O . 2 . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is what I've been envisioning, and I don't feel like I got a big advantage, but I don't feel behind either. So I guess it's what I'll go with.

I like that R17, N16 have a sort of miai for reducing top right.

I'm not sure how Violence will try and work with the competing moyos now.

Perhaps I can use Violence's reduction of my moyo to reduce his moyo.

IMHO, an approach to the lower right is the biggest move for black.

I think I have to do this... but I'm not sure how to best follow up.

An easy opening for Black.

I'm perfectly happy. I was wanting some favorable fighting over here to help me reduce black's moyos and develop a territorial game.

Right, I gradually remembered that this is an insane and dangerous way to play to try to get a good result and I was meant to just play a one space high pincer instead for that reason.

Loons wrote:...this is an insane and dangerous way to play...

This may be the best way to play against Violence: make him play defensively early.

I can't give him the result in my diagram... I think white's shape is too optimal. I really need to change something. After thinking long and hard about this, I decided to go with this. There are a lot of variations, but I'm just hoping there's some way I can complicate the situation and let it spiral out of his control.

I feel like I have to play strongly here and so cannot eg. sink to the second line.

Alright, into the Magic Sword we go. How much do you know?

I don't actually know that much, but it's not a very well documented joseki to my knowledge. Maybe I can get a decent result here. I have a ladder, so he can get a ladder break, but I don't think it's that good for him.

Does anyone know the modern pro consensus (if such a thing exists!) on if the one space approach to the Kobayashi is a mistake and if two-space high pincer is the correct punishment? When I learnt that (probably in 2007 on Go to China trip from Peter Liu 2p and friends, or maybe earlier) the reasoning was the sequence below: because black can use the peep of 6 to fix the lower side weakness in sente (thanks to the marked Kobayashi stones) he can take sente to extend to 8, preventing a white counter pincer so white's group is a bit useless and can't make up the territorial loss on the lower side by getting a counter-attack on 2. (Now of course this current game has rather more stones on the board so is different, maybe the 8 here being at j4 would actually be an underplay given strong boring f3 in place).

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[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 7 3 . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . B . . 6 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . 4 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

However, I later heard (second-hand perhaps not accurate) that Korean pros now thought the outside attach was a playable answer for white against the two-space high pincer, that the magic sword need not be feared as white could do ok somehow (wasn't told sequence). When I tried this on KGS I often got this result:

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[go]$$Wc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . 0 . 3 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . 1 X 5 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 2 8 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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[go]$$Wcm11
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , c . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 5 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . b X . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . a . . . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

This usually seemed playable for white to me as although white is small he is settled and black's lower side is low and still has a gap at a and there's the weakness at c too if black doesn't defend there now (which is solid but slow). In fact if black played on the right instead of joseki on lower side I'm not sure if the fighting is good for white due to black's k4 stone, in the above line black feels a bit inefficient on the lower side. Even so some games I managed to use techniques like b and crosscut to either break the lower side or kill black's 2nd line group there.

So if this result is ok for white (is it?) should black choose a different pincer like the one-space high? This joseki variation leads to a running fight that makes use of k4.

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[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 8 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . 3 . X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm11
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . 5 X O 2 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 1 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . O . O . . 7 |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . a . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Anyone have anything authoritative on this?

I vaguely recall learning from an authoritative source a few things that you mentioned. I also don't know the continuations from the Magic Sword in this position (should be very exciting to follow) and I don't agree with your variation on the one space pincer. Black can't just give up the ponuki. I see counter-pincers more commonly.

There has been resurgence of Kobayashi (and high Chinese) on Tygem and the one space approach response. I am seeing a lot of the outside attach, counter pincers, and variations like this:

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[go]$$W With or without the 5-6 exchange
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . 5 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . 7 . 4 6 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

The ball is in black's court for the next move.

I feel like professionals intend to sacrifice one of these groups for leverage on either side. The existence of white f3 may make a difference.

This deserves some study. I favor this outside attachment as well.