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#262: psygo vs topazg

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=12875

Page 4 of 5

Re: #262: psygo vs topazg

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:22 am
by psygo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: , :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . . . X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 1 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So far we've been playing the game of chicken, who's gonna blink first? Have I already blinked?

Re: #262: psygo vs topazg

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:05 am
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: , :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . . . X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 1 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think I have to fix that top right group before I do anything at the bottom, which is really rather irritating, but that's kind of my fault for making a bit of a mess up there, so I need to be patient and see where Black takes things I think

Re: #262: psygo vs topazg

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:28 am
by psygo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: , :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . . . X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 1 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #262: psygo vs topazg

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:16 pm
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: , :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . . . X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X . . 4 O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 1 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've become hopefully a bit more patient of a player these days. I've recognised a bit more clearly that the pain that weak groups can cause, and this just feels like the right thing to do - it's actually pretty hard for Black to ignore if he wants to keep any weaknesses in this group at all, and it starts to get this group close enough to unconditionally settled that I can be a bit more exciting on the lower side.


@Observers:

If anyone has any questions about anything I've done or am planning to do, do shout :)

Re: #262: psygo vs topazg

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:36 pm
by psygo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: , :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . 5 . X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X . . 4 O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 X O . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 1 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Frankly, I take it as a thank you move, I get to correct my shape and now I can basically do whatever I want at the top left region. I wonder if he thinks he is ahead, I think the game is pretty close so far, and doing something about my bottom is super urgent. Also, he was never in danger, he could have just jumped his way out to safety and there was apparent profit in attacking.

Re: #262: psygo vs topazg

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:17 pm
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: , :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . 5 . X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X . . 4 O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 X O . X . . . . 6 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 1 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Wheeeeeeee....

Re: #262: psygo vs topazg

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:30 pm
by skydyr
topazg wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: , :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . 5 . X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X . . 4 O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 X O . X . . . . 6 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 1 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Wheeeeeeee....


My sense is that invading here would have been better prior to the exchanges in the lower left, or if white had chosen to block the other way. As it is, black is strong on both sides so there's not a lot of aji for white to use. I suppose the question, however, is whether white could win with a reducing move, and maybe some sort of move pressuring E11.

Re: #262: psygo vs topazg

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:34 pm
by psygo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: , :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . 5 . X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X . . 4 O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 X O . X . . . 7 6 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 1 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Probably the only move. I'll either kill him or finish in sente while securing my territory. Although I must say that's a big reduction, he won't be able to get the whole top left either.

Re: #262: psygo vs topazg

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:12 pm
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: , :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . 5 . X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X . . 4 O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 X O . X . . . 7 6 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 1 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #262: psygo vs topazg

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:43 pm
by psygo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: , :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . 5 . X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X . . 4 O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 9 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 X O . X . . . 7 6 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 1 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now, sir, show me how to live or escape.

Re: #262: psygo vs topazg

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:07 pm
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 :b100: , :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . 5 . X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X . . 4 O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 9 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 X O . X . . . 7 6 . . 0 X . . . . |
$$ | . 1 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #262: psygo vs topazg

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:52 pm
by psygo
I'm in Paris now for spring break (there is a go tournament also), so I ask for a pause of some days.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 :b100: , :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . X . X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X . . O O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X O . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The hanes would give him many forcing moves, it would be too easy, and with Q4, he could get at least a ko.

Re: #262: psygo vs topazg

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:25 pm
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 :b100: , :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . X . X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X . . O O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X O . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #262: psygo vs topazg

Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:23 am
by psygo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 :b100: , :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . X . X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X . . O O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . 3 . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X O . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #262: psygo vs topazg

Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:09 am
by Joaz Banbeck
@Observers:
Am I missing something?

psygo wrote:...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 :b100: , :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . X . X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X . . O O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X O . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...The hanes would give him many forcing moves, it would be too easy, and with Q4, he could get at least a ko.


Hmmm... I thought that black HAD to hane.

IMHO, this looks ok for black:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 :b100: , :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . X . X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X . . O O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X O . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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