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Saint Ravitt vs Darev

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=13259

Page 4 of 5

Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:00 pm
by rev
Daal, don't wory about it. You didn't derail the game. I've been busy with classes recently, and need to contemplate my reply. Concerning hidden comments, generally, my opponent and I would be in agreement with keeping comments hidden. However, the two of us discussed in a PM before the game began, and we agreed that we would read each others comments on the moves. This is more of an open learning game for the both of us than it is a serious competition. We play more competitively on OGS. I realize this is not the usual course for a Malkovitch game to take, but we're doing it this way this time. I hope to post a move this evening to continue the game, and I hope my opponent is around.

Cheers.

Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:44 pm
by Joelnelsonb
Your opponent is patient, Darev. You didn't actually think that I would let you off the hook with abandonment, did you???

Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:47 pm
by rev
Yes, thank you for your patience, gracious opponent. It's finals week. BTW, I haven't seen you around OGS recently, everything good?

Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:50 pm
by rev
White 28:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to move.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . @ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The ladder is what it is. I want to make life in the bottom left as my top priority. Threatening the cut futhers this goal. If I do get to cut, then extend, I threaten the two stones of the D7 group.

Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:05 am
by Bill Spight
rev wrote:White 28:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to move.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . @ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The ladder is what it is. I want to make life in the bottom left as my top priority. Threatening the cut futhers this goal. If I do get to cut, then extend, I threaten the two stones of the D7 group.
I tell people that this is not go.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to move.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . @ X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This is go. :)

Not that the cut is necessarily the best local play, but the hane is almost certainly not. Here are some heuristics to compare the two plays.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Three to one
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . ? B W O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . ? @ ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . ? ? W O X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
First, let's just look at the surrounding 3x3 region. After the hane White has 3 stones to 1 stone for Black. That's a sign that White might be overconcentrated. Getting one stone ahead in a region is generally fine, but getting two stones ahead may well be inefficient. Note that White also gets two stones ahead in the surrounding 5x5 region.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White catches up
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . ? ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . ? @ B X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . ? B W O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Now the cut lets White catch up to Black in the number of stones in the surrounding 3x3 region. And in the surrounding 5x5 region, as well. Better. :)

Now let's try my heuristic of treating the two moves as miai.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Five alive
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


First, let White play the inside hane and then let Black make the solid connection. The connection gives the Black stones 5 dame. By Bruce Wilcox's "five alive" heuristic, that is very good for Black.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Only two dame
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 B B O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The cut leaves the :bc: stones with only two dame, a fact that White can exploit by a play at "a" after :b2:.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Fight
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
In real life Black is more likely to atari at 2 first. Now there is a fight with multiple weak stones. But White should take heart in the fact that White can sacrifice the cutting stones to good effect, even if that is not the best play.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Fight
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 2 6 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 X O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 7 O O X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
White secures the corner and prevents the ladder at 5 in sente. Not too shabby. :) White does not have to read all this out when making the cut; it is a worst case scenario. White just has to realize that the sacrifice is a possibility.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm5 Big corner
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 3 2 . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 X . a 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 O O X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
:w5: and :w7: threaten a ladder at "a". After :b8: White can take kikashi with :w9: and then take a big corner with :w11:.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm4 Loose ladder
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 X a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 5 O O X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . 8 6 . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If Black plays :b4: to threaten the cutting stones, White has a loose ladder. Note that Black has to worry about the cut at "a".
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc5 Sacrifice
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X 3 7 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 4 O W X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 . O O X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
:w5: at :wc:. :b6: captures. :b8: fills.

Even if White misses the loose ladder, sacrificing the cutting stones is again not too bad. After :w7: White has 5 dame (five alive). :w9: secures the corner and threatens Black's dumpling, if not to kill it, at least to force it to run on the second line.

In short, the hane is not go, the cut is. :)

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:26 am
by EdLee
Hi Bill,
After the hane White has 3 stones to 1 stone for Black. That's a sign that White might be overconcentrated. Getting one stone ahead in a region is generally fine, but getting two stones ahead may well be inefficient.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . ? . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . ? B W O X X . . ? . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . ? @ ? . . . . . ? . ? ? 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . ? ? W O X . . . ? . ? 3 2 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . ? . ? ? 1 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
This comparison of local stone counts as a heuristic is interesting.
For the common shape on the right, locally for the 3x3, B:W is 3:1 ;
( since this is true for many 3:1 ataris, we need other criteria to evaluate the situation )
and if we zoom out a bit, it's back to 3:3, and after :w6: connects, 3:4.
The other criteria are interesting. :)

Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:19 pm
by Bill Spight
Ed, et al.
I discovered this heuristic after studying pro games 20 years ago looking for local shapes (probably not named). I originally classified them according to the number of stone of each player, but it soon became apparent that a better classification was by the total number of stones and the difference between the number of stones of the two players. I found that the two most frequent moves were playing to a difference of zero (catch-up) and playing one more stone than the other player (moving ahead), the next most common moves were almost catching up and going two stones ahead, the last being the least frequent of the four. You can't make a rule of not going two stones ahead, as there are too many exceptions, but it should be a consideration. IMO it is something that DDKs should learn. It would have helped Darev to avoid the hane in this case. :) BTW, Sonoda 9p has proposed a similar idea, and even applies it to quite large regions. :D

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 2:47 am
by EdLee
Hi Bill,
Bill Spight wrote:IMO it is something that DDKs should learn. It would have helped Darev to avoid the hane in this case. :) BTW, Sonoda 9p has proposed a similar idea, and even applies it to quite large regions. :D
Very interesting.

Bruce Wilcox has some similar introductory heuristics for contact fights concerning liberties.

These two, combined with Mr. Yoda's recent (?) book about his "new" theory of shapes... Hmm... probably good to go back and study these basics... :)

Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:22 am
by Joelnelsonb
Black 29:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White to move.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . # X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This direct response seems obvious and makes a nice foothold on the the left side.

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:35 am
by EdLee
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:41 am
by Bill Spight
Ed, you rascal! :D

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:26 am
by EdLee
Hi Bill,
:mrgreen:

Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:06 pm
by rev
White 30:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to move.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . @ . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I need the hane here to prevent things from getting nasty in the corner.

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:22 pm
by EdLee
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:58 pm
by Joelnelsonb
Black 31:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White to move.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . # . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This seems forced; I'm surprised to see white didn't extend here
All times are UTC-07:00
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