Life In 19x19

wolfking wrote:

Uberdude wrote: Game 3 against Andrew Kay, the only strong player I played in the tournament.

Andrew, in your game against Andrew Kay, if white play at N18, seems to me it's (W)eye vs (B)no eye and white at least get a favorable ko out of it?

Good point, I was too emotional to look so far from his last move. I might not even have been in overtime, I can't recall. I did feel he played unnecessarily aggressively after my disastrous start and could have given me a chance in that fight, but as the game was bad for me I was mentally weak and expecting to lose so didn't try so hard to win, essentially playing out the resign. Andrew K on the other hand never gives up and fights hard to reverse games he is losing.

Uberdude wrote: Good point, I was too emotional to look so far from his last move. I might not even have been in overtime, I can't recall. I did feel he played unnecessarily aggressively after my disastrous start and could have given me a chance in that fight, but as the game was bad for me I was mentally weak and expecting to lose so didn't try so hard to win, essentially playing out the resign. Andrew K on the other hand never gives up and fights hard to reverse games he is losing.

Yes this can happen even to the top pros! I especially remember the famous "early resignation" by Qian Yuping against Kobayashi Koichi when he was actually half point ahead. He was just too upset with some of his plays to objectively assess his position.

Played the last Euro teams game of the season, lost to Alessandro Pace of Italy (who was top of BIBA group B). Opening felt good for me, but then did the classic endgame move you hope is sente that isn't in a fight. Some comments/variations in the sgf.

I was happy with how the opening went, and played a shoulder hit I'd seen in a Lee Sedol game to counter his influence strategy. Once I played the last big opening point on the left he played a strange attachment underneath and rather than directly answering I went for a leaning attack. He then played a loose move (f7 rather than f8, afterwards he said it was misclick) which allowed me to clamp to get the side but instead I got carried away and played what was essentially an endgame move at e2 so he fixed the clamp problem in sente. He then played a sharp attachment which I answered submissively and couldn't break into his moyo due to his own clamp tesuji. By now I was in overtime and tried to reduce aiming at his bad aji, but my wall had a cutting point of its own and with just a few seconds per move I sacrificed a huge group to kill a smaller one of his with bad aji. Maybe I could have had a chance if I surrounded the centre and sacrificed the tail of my group, but I saved it and in doing so he saved his formerly dead group so I was miles behind but didn't have time to count so played it out and lost by 25 points.

One position/move I want to understand better is that below. Lee Sedol played the tiger mouth connection of and I did the same, rather than pole connection at a, or hanging connection at b. I can see how b emphasises centre thickness/shape (it's common for black to peep that cut later, or in my game he just cut and killed me a lot later) but does have the downside of some cutting aji starting with the black empty triangle at 1 or a. As white has made the marked slide for 3-3 exchange (normally a no-no in another order with the jump out of pincer joseki, but here compensated for by the pleasant press on the top and black's approach from the wrong side at top left) you don't want black to cut there as you can't dodge to the 3-3 point as you could without the exchange, so I can see the downside of that. But what is the downside of pole connection? The upside is there is no peep to the left of a, nor would c be an atari after the cut, and that could help deal with the cut (in fact the cut would still be devastating in my game, but it could make quite a difference in another fight. So why did Lee play the tiger mouth? It takes a liberty from the black group, but that doesn't make the cut after d work. I can see it makes a little more eyeshape, and as Lee likes to let his groups get weak and then magically live maybe that's why. Or is it making e not sente, and thus black can't so easily poke through the elephant eye at f to break into the centre (if he does white can break into the top side, though maybe black can play g first).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . X X . . B . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O . . X . W . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . f . e . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . c O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O d . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

There's also this similar 3-4 joseki where I once played the same tiger mouth and the centre peep at a caused big troubles later; following which I vowed to never play tiger mouth but pole connection again in the future! Again why is this "the joseki" move rather than pole connection? (Not many pro examples though).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ -------------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . O . . . .
$$ . . X . X X X . O X . . .
$$ . . . O O O X 1 . , X . .
$$ . . . . . . O . O . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . a . X . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Edit: I just realised one other advantage of the tiger mouth connection is you can safely cut black's 2nd line attachment, if it's the pole connection black could break through at a:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . X X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O a O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 3 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

In fact it seems Lee Sedol utilised this later in the game when black ended up being forced to live submissively with kosumi there (though it also takes white's eyeshape, and Park did end up playing a to attack the whole white group, but he resigned when he went all-in and failed to kill it). It's impressive that despite getting the honte push up, Park's group there later got under pressure.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . X X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O X . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O O . . . O . O X . O . . |
$$ | . . O O O X X . X X X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . X O O O . O O , X . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . O . . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . O . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Looks like B got away with all 3 of his shock contact moves - at C9, O7, and K10.

dust wrote:Looks like B got away with all 3 of his shock contact moves - at C9, O7, and K10.

Yes, the 1st one was a surprise, my feeling is probably not good at pro level, and I think hane above was correct, but maybe not my leaning. If not e2 I think I have a fine result. o7 was a surprise, though I was half expecting o6. Looks a good move: I think I should hane below. k10 I half expected, but no time to plan response. Should play faster!

Yeah C9 can't really be good, your E8 looks like a good idea, my first feeling was C8, though lean can't be too bad.

vs. O7, in hindsight, your extend doesn't look good, so I think O8, double hane. it seems that after you did O8 in the game, you had to extend

O7 does look like a good move, comparing to the standard O6

vs K10 probably directly cut at E7

K10 doesn't look good

Uberdude wrote:

Uberdude wrote: So my goals are:
- at least play in if not win British Championship title match next year
- get 2400 rating
- get solid 5d KGS from non-blitz

Last weekend was the first stage of the British Championship and qualified for the next stage (8 player round robin Challengers' league) with 5 wins out of 6 which sounds good, but actually I played rather poorly and had easy opponents (all wins against people > 2 stones weaker) so am not particularly confident about the first goal above. I didn't beat any of the other 7 qualifiers (dhu did well and won the tournament with 6 wins and beat 5 of them) and lost to Andrew Kay (tried to have fun in the opening and lost early) so actually lost rating points despite 5/6 down to 2363 (meaning dhu overtakes me), so 2400 is a way off. So a rather unsatisfactory warm up for the Challengers' league, I'll need to play a lot better to do well in it.

Rather surprisingly I achieved the first goal above, winning 6 of 7 games, and so will play dhu (who also won 6) in the title match this year. I won our mutual game, in which we both played rather AlphaGo-esque moves, by time after only about 100 moves. Junnan Jiang 5d, the reigning champion, didn't attend. My only loss was to Charles Hibbert by time in a position I was leading a lot and thought I still had 20-30 seconds left (I'd played the first 14 of the 15 in 5 minutes overtime stones in about 3.5 minutes) but it was only a couple of seconds as these two situations are hard to distinguish on the simple analog clocks. That was very annoying and I was tempted to quit the tournament but in the end went and bought a better clock and continued. And following that bad luck I had some good luck when Andrew Kay, who had a poor tournament but was leading our game, got greedy so we had a huge semeai which he misplayed to gift me the win.

Game 2:

Uberdude wrote: ...
That was very annoying and I was tempted to quit the tournament but in the end went and bought a better clock and continued...

Attaboy!
What is the main time in these games?

ez4u wrote: What is the main time in these games?

1 hour 45 minutes each (and then 15 stones in 5 minutes Canadian overtime).

Uberdude wrote: ...these two situations are hard to distinguish on the simple analog clocks. That was very annoying and I was tempted to quit the tournament but in the end went and bought a better clock and continued.

What an utter design failure! Congratulations on your perseverance and on achieving one of your goals, despite such an irritating setback!

daal wrote:

Uberdude wrote: ...these two situations are hard to distinguish on the simple analog clocks. That was very annoying and I was tempted to quit the tournament but in the end went and bought a better clock and continued.

What an utter design failure! Congratulations on your perseverance and on achieving one of your goals, despite such an irritating setback!

Made in the USSR!

More game records, this was last round against Alex Rix, who is currently at the WAGC. I got into a bad position by too much AlphaGo thinking and letting him use Daniel's moves from their game against me. Amusing failed ladder near the end. If I won this game I qualified with no need for a play-off, but as Charlie beat Des (from a really bad position), if I lost I would need to have a play-off vs Charlie.


Round 6 vs Tim Hunt. I played AlphaGo-esque shoulder hit which was interesting, and then attach when he approaches inside my Chinese moyo and made a big side.


Round 5 vs Andrew Kay. Lucky win.

From another thread

Bill Spight wrote:

Uberdude wrote:This position under discussion reminds me of a decision I faced recently in the British Challengers' league vs Andrew Kay:

$$Bc British Challengers 2017 round 5: Andrew Simons (me) 4d white vs Andrew Kay 4d black.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . f . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . d . a . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . B X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X . . X . . X O X O b . O . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . X O O O X . c . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc British Challengers 2017 round 5: Andrew Simons (me) 4d white vs Andrew Kay 4d black.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . f . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . d . a . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . B X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X . . X . . X O X O b . O . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . X O O O X . c . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

What do you think of a move at "d"? As you say, it is a natural point for a Black attack and if White plays there, White has follow-ups on the left side.

I thought it was rather wishy-washy for white: it's close to the left, but does it really threaten d12 invasion? If I do so I have made a small gap for black to push through at e11 which heavily damages both sides, so I thought more distant move like h10 somewhat counter-intuitively had a better threat of the invasion as it doesn't give black such a powerful splitting move. I was reluctant to play more forcefully with the attach at e10 as it's giving black solid 4th line points, but would do so if he attacked from the central direction. Maybe that's not so logical though as when he jumps there in sente whilst attacking me he gets 6th line almost-territory that whilst not solid it's hard to find a time to invade without dying. Looking now I also wonder about white playing g10, a move I didn't consider at the time.

I guess you have to compare the value black can get from attacking you if you decide to tenuki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc British Challengers 2017 round 5:\n Andrew Simons (me) 4d white vs Andrew Kay 4d black.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . C C C . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . C C C . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . C C C . O . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . C C . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . C C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . C C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 2 . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . X X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O X . . X . . X O X O 1 . O . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . X O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I guess black gets direct benefit on the right in the marked area, plus potential influence toward the situation on the top... You can compare that to the solid benefit you get from playing .

I don't know how much is worth more.

This idea seems obvious, but it's how I would think of the situation.

I played my first BGA league game in years, and had a terrible opening against Boris Mitrovic, but was lucky to win when he took away his liberty (triangle exchange) in the endgame, which meant my endgame block (square) was a sneaky sente to kill which he didn't see, but I actually killed incorrectly in a nice little tsumego, white to play and kill bottom right corner:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc Andrew Simons 4d (white) vs Boris Mitrovic 2d
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . X X O O O . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . O . O X O . O O O X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . O O X O X X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O O O X X O O X X O X . . . |
$$ | O O O X . X X X X . X O O O O O X . . |
$$ | O X X . X X . . . . O . . . . . X . X |
$$ | O . . . O X O . . . . O . . X O X . . |
$$ | O X . X X O O O . . X X X X . X X . O |
$$ | X X . . . X O X . O . X O . X O X O . |
$$ | . . . , . X X O . , O O . O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O O . . . . O X . X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . X . . O X . X O . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X . . . . . . X O O O @ . |
$$ | . . X . . X O X . . . . O O . Q Y X . |
$$ | . . X X . X O X . X . X O X X O O X . |
$$ | . X X O X O O O X O . X O . O X . X . |
$$ | . X O O . X O O X . X O . . O X . . . |
$$ | X O . . O O . O X . X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]