Life In 19x19

Javaness wrote:If you want to give a positive image of, or for, feminity in Go, why not just work an example of a lady's achievements into your text, instead of pretending that your choice of gender for the stones presents some pair-go-esque world of 1:1 male-female ratio and harmony.

John Fairbairn wrote:

I cringe every time I read or hear a reference to "the Orient."

Since the poster of this message made me cringe by declining to explain the statement, I can't know exactly why he cringes. However, not very long ago a person from a family of Chinese origin living in the USA wrote to me about my frequent use of "Oriental" and said he, like some other people in the USA, found it pejorative. He was not really complaining but rather was puzzled because my usage of the term was clearly not meant to be pejorative!

I think it would therefore be useful, mostly for Americans, if I point out that, for historical and cultural reasons, we in Britain, and I think to a large degree other countries in Europe, have in our consciousness the many people of India and Pakistan who live here. They tend to prefer being classed as (British) Asians, and this usage is enshrined in many official government usages. We therefore often use Oriental for people from China, Japan and Korea. There is not, and as far as I know never has been, any suggestion of this being pejorative. People of this origin in Britain also use the term about themselves. A large supermarket near us in London run by Japanese and selling food from Japan, China, Korea, Thailand and Malaysia (but not from India or Pakistan) called itself, in huge neon letters The Oriental Centre. And I might add that within Japan they sometimes use the English word Oriental about themselves.

We do not exclude such people from Asia, of course, but when we refer to the CKJ countries in that way we often tend to say South-East Asia, although whether China is then included is often a matter of debate.

Such definitions are always fluid - I can well remember as a child finding it hard to get my head round some people calling the Middle East Asia (not wrong but it did confuse me) - and some people will have a slightly different take on the nuances. But I can say with certainty that "Oriental" or "the Orient" when it comes from this side of the Pond has nothing bad about it.

hyperpape wrote:

richardamullens wrote:To me "oriental" is not in the least pejorative. I might say that "I like oriental girls" where there is a hint of mystery or exoticism implied and it certainly beats reeling off a long list of countries.

And that, gentlemen, is one of the associations that makes the term demeaning--the suggestion that the orientals are nice little mysteries to be studied.

Joaz Banbeck wrote:Traditional Chinese geography had five directions, each matched with a color: north ( black ), south ( red ), east ( green ), west ( white ) and center ( yellow )

Shall we tell the Chinese that their "Yellow Mountain" in central China is too China-centric? Or their "Red River" in southern China? Or "Green Island" off of their eastern coast?

Shall we tell them also that calling their land "The Middle Kingdom" or "The Middle Country" is also a bit China-centric?

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The Japanese have long referred to Japan as the "Land of the Rising Sun", because it appeared to be the first land that the sun touched. Shall we tell them that that term is Nippon-centric? ( I suggest 'Land of the UCT+9 sun" )

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We all have terms for in-relation-to-where-I-am.

When those who object to the use of "Orient" or "Oriental" oject equally loudly to the terms mentioned above - when they tell The Japanese and Chinese that the very names of their countries are wrong - then I'll take them seriously. Otherwise I will not.

CarlJung wrote:

hyperpape wrote:

richardamullens wrote:To me "oriental" is not in the least pejorative. I might say that "I like oriental girls" where there is a hint of mystery or exoticism implied and it certainly beats reeling off a long list of countries.

And that, gentlemen, is one of the associations that makes the term demeaning--the suggestion that the orientals are nice little mysteries to be studied.

What's the PC word for conveying the same idea, if oriental can't be used?

Derivation
The term "Orient" is derived from the Latin word oriens meaning "east" (lit. "rising" < orior "rise"). The use of the word for "rising" to refer to the east (where the sun rises) has analogs from many languages: compare the terms "Levant" (< French levant "rising"), "Anatolia" (< Greek anatole), "mizrahi" in Hebrew ("zriha" meaning sunrise) and "The Land of the Rising Sun" to refer to Japan. Also, many ancient temples, such as the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, and also many pagan temples as well, were built with their main entrances facing the East. To situate them in such a manner was to "orient" them in the proper direction. When something was facing the correct direction, it was said to be in the proper "orientation".

Etymology

The English word Japan is an exonym. The Japanese names for Japan are Nippon, and Nihon.
The Japanese name Nippon is used for most official purposes, including on Japanese money, postage stamps, and for many international sporting events. Nihon is a more casual term and the most frequently used in contemporary speech. Japanese people refer to themselves as Nihonjin and they call their language Nihongo.

Both Nippon and Nihon literally mean "the sun's origin" and are often translated as the Land of the Rising Sun.