Life In 19x19

Life in 19x19. Go, Weiqi, Baduk... Thats the life.
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Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=152

Page 4 of 51

Prisoner clariification

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:42 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Umm.. exactly how are we recording prisoners?

Does "W:2" mean that there are two white prisoners? Or that white has two prisoners?

I ask this because I made a correction and added to one number, then my teammate made a correction and added to the other.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:06 pm
by shapenaji
Erm, well, it doesn't actually matter right now, since we both had the same number... but I assumed that it was basically like each side's bowl, so B:X is the X prisoners that Black has in their bowl.

No other stones have been captured yet, but I assumed that when they were, they would go under the name heading of whomever captured them.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:56 am
by Gresil
Just a little note—due to non-unforeseen festivities (and
the correct move not being immediately obvious to me at all—though the general area is obvious, I anticipate important distinctions between the various alternatives clumped there—
) it may take until Sunday afternoon for me to play the next move.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:41 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
I may be a bit irregular in my posting for the next 10 days. Wife and I are taking scuba gear, going to Mexico to play tag with manta rays. Internet connections there may not be reliable.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:41 pm
by shapenaji
Joaz Banbeck wrote:I may be a bit irregular in my posting for the next 10 days. Wife and I are taking scuba gear, going to Mexico to play tag with manta rays. Internet connections there may not be reliable.


Only irregular? Cmon man, game can wait! Viva La Mexico! Have a great time!

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 8:55 am
by Gresil
Thoughts:
I don't want to lean on either white group, so the options are:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . a b . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . B . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 1 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If :bc: were white, white would have superb shape; I feel white's shape is potentially compromised here, but I'm unlikely to come up with a way to take advantage of it. :b3: weakens :bc:; :b5: at :b3: is worth consideration if this 1-2 exchange ends up occurring.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X 6 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X 4 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 7 5 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . B . 0 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X 6 2 1 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 7 5 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can't tell if :bc: can push out. This looks powerful for white. The two-space jump was my favorite before I started reading... tuff cooquays.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . B . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 3 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:w2: looks like a shape point. After :w4: I want to pull :bc: out, but the gap between two unsettled black groups worries me just as much—thus :b5: as a forcing exchange before shifting to the top. This has a somewhat similar feeling to the second diagram, but with better reach.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . B . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 3 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is the other white response I see. :b3: still seems forced and in turn forces white to play on the side. I'm going to go with this because it feels like I have more of a chance to exit with initiative.



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


W 11
B 12

(edit: forgot w/b points)

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 9:11 am
by Harleqin
Gresil wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . B . 0 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X 6 2 1 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 7 5 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



White does not have time for :w10:, as Black will split the left side.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 9:17 am
by Gresil
Let me guess—you've got a parlor game running where the first to call out that a move will be changed gets a point.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 9:29 am
by daniel_the_smith
Now we do!
This move will be changed. :)

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 11:21 am
by Joaz Banbeck
Gresil wrote:Let me guess—you've got a parlor game running where the first to call out that a move will be changed gets a point.


This move is similar in character to G6 a while back, in which Gresil's sole interest seems to be running. But often the best is to attack while running.

Also, this move does not have a very solid connection to the three stones.

I predict that Topazg will change it.

The strategy that guides the move should be, IMHO, the motare at D12.
For beginners:
[hide] http://senseis.xmp.net/?MakeAFeintToThe ... gInTheWest

[/hide]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 3:33 pm
by topazg
Not approved:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29 Move 29 - W: 13, B: 12
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 . C . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I could have sworn my #29 was joseki for White, so I'm sort of surprised by the latest move and its subsequent approval. However, while I don't like pushing from behind like this, I figure Black's goal is to attack the White group, and building strength on this side will be the way to do it. It's either this or build strength poking harmlessly at White's top group and invade properly on the left - I felt we could make Black strong enough without crippling the top side I'd probably play this way because of the result in the lower left, but I'm guessing there's a weak spot in White's position in the top left that can be attacked - F16 looks nice - that I'll poke at when our wall is long enough.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 5:58 pm
by Violence
Approved.

Apply pressure here first, before turning to attack. Normal stuff.

Move # 30a

Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:42 am
by Chew Terr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30 Move 30 - W: 13, B: 12
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Okay, that side group looks like it needs support. This is a battle of weak groups, so I'm told it is important to not have the weakest.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc If white defends the top somehow...
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O W . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | a a O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

We can't afford this, and I think we have too many stones invested to sacrifice it easily. So we really need to defend the group. If this diagram occurs, black can keep our group to zero-one eyes around 'a'.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm However, if we try the hane...
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 2 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 7 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black wins the race to kill. (They have 3 liberties, we have liberties, but it ends on their turn). If we atari from :b3:... we are forced to crawl on the second line, with no assurances of life anymore.
As far as I can tell, this means we 1) need to play on the left, and 2) cannot hane. So we extend. I would love to help defend that top group, but I think we cannot yet. Shapenaji's shoulder hit should help it run if necessary, though it may not be enough. We shall see, but this is urgent.

Move #30B

Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 11:38 am
by Joaz Banbeck
Net access is - as expected - flaky here. I approve. Another pro-quality move by my teammate.
Will post before the connection dies. More later.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 3:37 pm
by shapenaji
I approve
All times are UTC-07:00
Page 4 of 51

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