Life In 19x19

Javaness asks about travel, and whether the US is a third world country. Well, this is our one small brush with being an underdeveloped nation. First (nothing to do with development), America is very spread out. Some players will have to drive five hours or more if they want to go to more than one tournament a year (like Belfast to Cork). Second, train service is abysmal. I remember when my then-girlfriend would regularly ride trains from college to home or to my neck of the woods. Three hour delays on a three hour ride were par for the course. Some people do ride Amtrak, but except for a few well run lines, it's not a fun experience. Lastly, air travel is becoming increasingly burdensome, as we suffer through security theatre and petty regulations. It used to be that if you lived near an airport, flying was easier for all but the shortest trips. Now driving is better for all but the longest.

So in short, while this may not be a common case, I certainly have sympathy for anyone who finds themselves hard up for opportunities to compete.

Javaness wrote:is the USA a third world country now?

You haven't visited since the Clinton years, have you?

Kirby wrote:But I feel sympathy for those that have had lapses in membership,

Insurance companies won't pay out a filed claim if you had let your policy lapse, even if the lapse was unintentional.

xed_over wrote:

Kirby wrote:But I feel sympathy for those that have had lapses in membership,

Insurance companies won't pay out a filed claim if you had let your policy lapse, even if the lapse was unintentional.

This seems to be in the same category as the Costco argument. The AGA policy is not a cemented rule that can never be changed. If we find reason to change it, we can change it. And I think we should change it.

Does the AGA aspire to be like an insurance company?

Now it sounds like we're getting down to your real issue with the AGA, and has nothing to do with the topic being debated.

Kirby wrote:

John Fairbairn wrote:

That's why I think it's more important to use displayed go ability as a factor in selecting representatives than AGA loyalty. The AGA is just an organization.

"Just". Another kick in the teeth for AGA volunteers.
...

Ok, I might be acting a little dramatic.

Yes. One might even go so far as to say a troll.

Kirby wrote: But even bringing up AGA volunteers, I would have a bit more sympathy if I actually felt that I could *be* a volunteer.

You *can* be.

Kirby wrote:I have actually volunteered to help out with computer related tasks (AGA database and website) at least 3 or 4 times now, but it's never turned into something where I was actually given the go to help out.

unfortunately, the AGA has not made it easy to bring in more volunteers, but remember, those that are already in, are themselves volunteers and often have to split their time with the rest of their lives. You are not being ignored on purpose.

Kirby wrote:There was even discussion on this forum (or maybe it was GD) where people were arguing that volunteers were not "good enough" until they had proven themselves to be.

I'm afraid most of those posts were mine.

One thing that took me a while to learn about volunteering, nobody is really going to say yea or nay to you. You're just going to have to push your way in and provide a service that they can't live without.

Remember, when volunteering for a job that someone else already has, they will find it difficult assigning specific tasks to you, because often by the time they've defined what that task might be, they then feel they can just do it faster themselves.

Find a need that isn't being met, and find a way to meet it.

Kirby wrote:The result of this is that I have come to feel like the AGA is kind of like a club - if you're friends with the people in charge, then you can be one of the volunteers, having your name in all of the E-journals, and so on, but if you're just a run-of-the mill go player that has asked to help out, you'll be hard set to get access into the club of AGA leaders...

Again, this is not unique to the AGA, but is true of many organizations.

This would be less true if the AGA had full time paid staff who could help organize volunteer efforts.

But I feel sympathy for those that have had lapses in membership, for example, because the AGA is the only way to get to these international tournaments

It is a very odd coincidence that those who "forget" to renew their membership always manage to "remember" when there is an international tournament with a free ticket on offer. They "remember" that because every week they get their AGJe or other e-mails, or because they meet AGA members in clubs and tournaments, or on the internet. But these very same sources of information only help them "forget" when they have to pay a subscription. Very strange.

Of course it can happen that events in one's life can exclude thoughts of go, but they are not very common and you'd expect the same events to exclude thoughts of free tickets. We all know that much commoner explanations are being a scatterbrain, a shilly-shallier, a cheapskate, a dipsomaniac or a "strong player" who thinks he should be waited on hand and foot. I find it odd to feel true sympathy with those people, and I say that as a scatterbrain.

xed_over wrote:...
Yes. One might even go so far as to say a troll.

What, because I don't agree with you?

xed_over wrote:

Kirby wrote: But even bringing up AGA volunteers, I would have a bit more sympathy if I actually felt that I could *be* a volunteer.

You *can* be.

Oh, really? Would you like me to forward you the emails I've sent offering to help? I have asked to help multiple times, but it never turns into anything. I'm always given a response like, "Well, we have enough people to help out with the database, so if we need something later we'll give you a shout.".

xed_over wrote:

Kirby wrote:I have actually volunteered to help out with computer related tasks (AGA database and website) at least 3 or 4 times now, but it's never turned into something where I was actually given the go to help out.

unfortunately, the AGA has not made it easy to bring in more volunteers...

Why? This is a big question to me.

John Fairbairn wrote:

But I feel sympathy for those that have had lapses in membership, for example, because the AGA is the only way to get to these international tournaments

It is a very odd coincidence that those who "forget" to renew their membership always manage to "remember" when there is an international tournament with a free ticket on offer. They "remember" that because every week they get their AGJe or other e-mails, or because they meet AGA members in clubs and tournaments, or on the internet. But these very same sources of information only help them "forget" when they have to pay a subscription. Very strange.

Of course it can happen that events in one's life can exclude thoughts of go, but they are not very common and you'd expect the same events to exclude thoughts of free tickets. We all know that much commoner explanations are being a scatterbrain, a shilly-shallier, a cheapskate, a dipsomaniac or a "strong player" who thinks he should be waited on hand and foot. I find it odd to feel true sympathy with those people, and I say that as a scatterbrain.

I think it's just that the only way for people to participate in the international tournaments is through the AGA. I don't care about free tickets, but it's hard for somebody to get the chance to play if they don't go through the AGA and follow whatever rules they have.

I feel like the ability to participate in international tournaments is a limited resource. And only a small group of people has access to how this limited resource is used.

I often disagree with Kirby, and I think sometimes his thoughts wander into unhelpful territory, but he's no troll. Indeed, he's probably one of the most paradigmatic "un-trolls" on here.

That said, Kirby, here's a point about volunteering. You say you offer computer skills, etc. But it's always possible that the AGA can't make good use of you that way. You have to have an awareness of how an organization can actually make use of your skills, and not insist on doing what's most interesting to you or flatters yourself. Are you offering the kind of help that's most needed/easiest to accept? I don't know whether or not this is the case--I haven't read your emails.

Actually, it does seem the tech aspects of the AGA are still works in progress. But there may be a fear of too many cooks in the kitchen, unless you have very specific ideas. Almost every collaborative project I've been involved with has suffered from too many people trying to contribute in overlapping ways. I have tremendous respect for people who don't try and direct things or rise to a prominent position, but just help out.

This is something I'm thinking about in my own life. One path I'd be tremendously interested in is working on global poverty or development. But if I want to pursue that, I can't insist on being a William Easterly or Esther Duflo--participating as a public intellectual--I'd have to actually see where I could contribute, and that's a reason I'm not (yet) seriously pursuing it. I don't know how my self-interest in doing work that's intrinsically interesting meshes with my interests in contributing to the greater good.

Kirby wrote:I think it's just that the only way for people to participate in the international tournaments is through the AGA. I don't care about free tickets, but it's hard for somebody to get the chance to play if they don't go through the AGA and follow whatever rules they have.

Who is going to choose the USA's rep if it isn't the AGA? the USCF maybe?

hyperpape wrote:That said, Kirby, here's a point about volunteering. You say you offer computer skills, etc. But it's always possible that the AGA can't make good use of you that way. You have to have an awareness of how an organization can actually make use of your skills, and not insist on doing what's most interesting to you or flatters yourself. Are you offering the kind of help that's most needed/easiest to accept? I don't know whether or not this is the case--I haven't read your emails.

Actually, it does seem the tech aspects of the AGA are still works in progress. But there may be a fear of too many cooks in the kitchen, unless you have very specific ideas. Almost every collaborative project I've been involved with has suffered from too many people trying to contribute in overlapping ways. I have tremendous respect for people who don't try and direct things or rise to a prominent position, but just help out.

As the webmaster and coordinator for a number of web related projects, sometimes there arent jobs for more volunteers. Sorry Kirby, its not you, its just we have people doing jobs and some are reluctant to take on a helper. The AGA is paying someone to upgrade one of its databases and when its done i'm sure we'll want help integrating it with other things. When we have more things to do, I'll ask for help on them. Sorry dude.

John has pretty much expressed my feelings on the subject, but I will say that as an AGA member who belongs to many other professional and non-professional associations, is as busy with the daily grind as anyone else, and despite all these and other commitments can manage to keep my AGA membership continuous, it would be more than a little insulting as a paying member if the AGA decided to give an all-expense-paid trip to someone who can't even manage the most minimal commitment to the organization – being a member.

And Kirby is decidedly NOT a troll.

And Kirby is decidedly NOT a troll.

And can we please not have a "Is Kirby a troll?" poll. He's not. He's one of the good guys here.

Come to think of it, can we please not have any polls? This is not being grumpy. It's just that one of the lessons you learn early in journalism is that lists make bad articles. In the same way, polls seem to be a bad way to start a thread. What's wrong with putting a for and against case properly?

Kirby vs 100 here huh?

I personally think he has a point about the AGA being a one-stop-shop for international competition. If the goal of international tournaments is to have a representative sample of the world's population, Then when it comes to international tournaments, the AGA, being the only go organization we have, should focus more on representing the US and less on representing itself.

For that reason, I think the continuous membership rule isn't really fair. What about the Korean and Chinese pockets of go that flourish in certain areas of the country?

Aren't they American too? Shouldn't our international representative also represent them?

If we have a qualifier for the American representative, I think it should welcome all-comers, regardless of their ties to the AGA.

hyperpape wrote:...

That said, Kirby, here's a point about volunteering. You say you offer computer skills, etc. But it's always possible that the AGA can't make good use of you that way. You have to have an awareness of how an organization can actually make use of your skills, and not insist on doing what's most interesting to you or flatters yourself. Are you offering the kind of help that's most needed/easiest to accept? I don't know whether or not this is the case--I haven't read your emails.

....

This is a good point. I offered to help out in some specific areas, and it has never worked out. I think that the areas that I offered to help out with best suited my skills, but it's a good point that the AGA may truly not need help in some of those areas.

So, I was a bit turned off to the AGA after that, but maybe I should consider offering to help out in *any* area.

I guess that this has gotten a bit far away from the original topic, though. The reason I was debating for the AGA to have relaxed rules on international tournaments was because I have been frustrated with the AGA before, and the AGA seemed like the only gateway to these international tournaments.

That said, though, a big reason for my frustration was because of these volunteer issues - and I must admit that I have only offered to help on specific things.